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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

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rkuchinsky
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Um. Nope. I’ll stick with my “old fashioned” 7 with proper size grille. Thanks.

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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 8th, 2019, 11:30 pm

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yo
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Everything about that is proper, Richard! Thumbs up!

Re: What is BMW doing?

January 9th, 2019, 12:21 pm

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ICE still has innovation. Infiniti just debuted a variable compression ratio engine!

I think the gap in perceived quality has narrowed between luxury cars and everything else. I think that's why everyone is tossing in big LCDs to tell you how expensive the car is.

I haven't sat in Stinger yet, but when sitting in a Genesis, I didn't see any difference in quality to Merc/BMW. The driving might be a different story.

That new 7 is really bad. Can we bring back Bangle now?
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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 9th, 2019, 12:35 pm

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The Stinger fit and finish is definitely not Audi level, but for half the price of an A7 it makes a compelling argument!

Re: What is BMW doing?

January 17th, 2019, 9:32 pm

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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 9:51 am

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Someone should cut out an original set of kidneys and tape them to the front like roadkill.

Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 10:11 am

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rkuchinsky
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Leak of 2022 7 just revealed.

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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 10:55 am

Mrog
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@rkuchinsky
lol

I really don't get car designers sometimes. Most of those I know are masterful at what they do. They out-sketch all the other designers and their feeling for shapes and proportions is usually incredible. And those hired by companies like BMW are supposed to be the best of the best. Yet they again and again manage to produce absolute turds like this. And I don't think I know a single person that thinks this is awesome.
The most likely thing is I simply overestimate how much say the designers in a huge corporation like that actually have, with very few product releases per year and a huge marketing, sales, engineering backend, not to forget all the car "enthusiasts" who all think they know it better without actual design experience that probably work in a company like this. I think us "regular" industrial designers can be happy about how much say we actually have in the whole product developement process and how much room we (usually) get to actually propose a somewhat tasteful vision of the future.

Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 1:10 pm

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Gosh that's nasty. The '2022 version' is only slightly nastier. How could any manufacturing-minded designer propose a hood line like that? Am I seeing a little wiggle in the hood cut line, just above the headlights...? WHY.
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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 1:19 pm

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rkuchinsky
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Mrog wrote:
January 18th, 2019, 10:55 am
@rkuchinsky
lol

I really don't get car designers sometimes. Most of those I know are masterful at what they do. They out-sketch all the other designers and their feeling for shapes and proportions is usually incredible. And those hired by companies like BMW are supposed to be the best of the best. Yet they again and again manage to produce absolute turds like this. And I don't think I know a single person that thinks this is awesome.
The most likely thing is I simply overestimate how much say the designers in a huge corporation like that actually have, with very few product releases per year and a huge marketing, sales, engineering backend, not to forget all the car "enthusiasts" who all think they know it better without actual design experience that probably work in a company like this. I think us "regular" industrial designers can be happy about how much say we actually have in the whole product developement process and how much room we (usually) get to actually propose a somewhat tasteful vision of the future.
Ya, I dunno. I've kinda been saying the opposite for years. Car designers (don't really know any personally) are great at sketching, yes. But are they good designers? Is it really a case where everything wrong is done by non-designers? Or, are designers not making sketches that translate into manufacturable/saleable products? Are designers not advocates enough for their work? Surely designers are responsible for this atrocity. How are designers not to be blamed when they sketch concepts with 26" wheels and 3" of DLO and then the real car looks stupid on normal sized rims with actual space for humans?

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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 2:46 pm

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I think it is an industry with a lot of siloization... I'm not sure that is a word, but let's pretend it is.

You have product planning groups deciding what ever part of the car will cost before any research has been done into the product and user, so no matter what you design, at the end of the day, the steering wheel assembly can only cost x.

Then you have an engineering run culture where many decisions are made by what is manufacturable and what did competitors due last year vs what do users actually want and where do we think our competitors are going.

Lastly there is a design culture that seems to want to ignore these things and just do hot sketches. Those hot sketches get selected and then manhandled to fit into the budgets already approved by the first group and the architecture already designed by the second. I think the culture develops that way because the internal teams are so competitive that they are always trying to out sketch or CAD model each other for internal presentations to win internal favor vs focusing on doing the right thing for the end product.

It doesn't work that way in all companies. I have a few friends at smaller car companies who say because of the smaller scale of the company it is more integrated and decisions are made faster with less people... but in those cases the brands tend to be saddled with old platforms, engines, and tech because they can't afford the R&D costs.

Certainly with these BMWs there is some serious creative direction pushing them. I've read they are very focused on the Asian markets and on harvesting the equity of the brand by getting cheaper products in every possible category with better margins. Those are not design decisions but they are the strategies that design is responding to. If I were them I would enter the Asian markets with a product line that looks more Germanic, not less. They will have to charge a premium to be there so they better have some differentiation. My other thought is what happens once all that brand value is harvested? How will they capture another generation? It seems like ti will be a tough hole to climb out of.

Good thing for us enthusiasts there are always vintage cars :-)

Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 4:05 pm

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rkuchinsky
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yo wrote:
January 18th, 2019, 2:46 pm

Lastly there is a design culture that seems to want to ignore these things and just do hot sketches. Those hot sketches get selected and then manhandled to fit into the budgets already approved by the first group and the architecture already designed by the second. I think the culture develops that way because the internal teams are so competitive that they are always trying to out sketch or CAD model each other for internal presentations to win internal favor vs focusing on doing the right thing for the end product.
So everyone is to blame?

I just find it kind of laughable that what used to be the pinnacle of design (cars) is for the most part, terrible. What % of new cars would you say are actually good design (in all senses of the term)? 10%?

Nothing newer than 2001 if I can help it (though been looking at some 3rd Gen Range Rovers recently and could maybe wrap my head around that - especially the models that were BMW underneath before they turned Jag).

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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 4:29 pm

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Yup. Basically everyone has a hand in it.

On a side note.... someone from design trends 101 posted the Audi response... which inadiately made me think of the actual production Toyota Avalon. Please note, the Audi is photoshopped but the Avalon is not. That image is right from the Toyota website.
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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 18th, 2019, 5:03 pm

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AndyMc
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rkuchinsky wrote:
January 18th, 2019, 10:11 am
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What are they thinking? It’s obnoxiously massive 🤮

Reminds me of this
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Re: What is BMW doing?

January 21st, 2019, 5:44 pm

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I still won't forget my first and only experience inside the auto industry was at a cross-functional student design/engineering project kickoff with GM in ~2004.

The designers came in, gave an impassioned brief about how we were to design an ultra functional and beautiful sports car, like an Ariel Atom. Something where both the design and engineers worked together for a fantastic result.

Literally as soon as they finished and left the room the head of the team immediately stood up and said "No, we are not doing that. Your job is to design a compact car to compete with the [recently released] Mini Cooper"

Our designers tried for about 2 weeks to live up to that original brief, at which point we were removed from the project for insubordination.

GM got bailed out < 4 years later and I vowed to never try to be a car designer ever again.
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