Please wear masks

in case it wasn’t clear “It is radioactive but if you all boost your immune system you should be OK.” = sarcastic.

Ok, we know they’re not 100% effective, but please be pro-social and wear a mask.

‘“Being approximately right most of the time is better than being precisely right occasionally,” the Scottish epidemiologist John Cowden wrote, in 2010. “You can only be sure when to act in retrospect.”’

There’s just a lot of cultural subtlety involved in mask-wearing - see here in the Netherlands it would be regarded you become less social with a mask since you are covering your face, your expression, your identity. A masked society, the image of an unsafe police state. A topic in line with burqa wearing. But that’s why I believe you hardly see anyone with masks here (I have seen maybe one or two personally and this is where the corona outbreak started in the Netherlands). It’s mostly the elderly and immigrants I see wearing them in the big cities.

I believe at this point mask wearing should only be obligatory in public areas with close contact - cinemas, event centers, sports venues, festivals, the big stores perhaps. I tend to go against mask wearing otherwise for these reasons:

  1. A mask gives people a false sense of safety causing them to go outside more
  2. The virus will accumulate on the masks much more than if droplets would fall to the ground. And unconsciously you touch your face ALL the time. This way the virus gets everywhere. Remember this virus mostly spreads through physical contact, not the air.
  3. Mask-wearing requires a strict policy of exchanging them, leaving them idle for a few days to kill the accumulations, not touching your face, and having the right certified mask for your region. Most average Joes will get at most one of those aspects right.

Ralf, you seem to be 100% on the point. It is not about politics. It is about medical science.

In Europe we have a much different perception concerning the wearing of the masks than our american friends seem to have:

After a short European travel of 2 weeks to me it seems, that in the regions, which suffered most, the wearing of the masks is seen as the new curtesy towards each other. But in the regions, which did not experience as much tragedy the wearing of masks is seen as “alien” and disturbing.

Washing your hands is as important. Spain is becoming a different country right now. Everybody takes care in scrubbing down.

Great, and in case the second wave hits I’d even start advocating things like inflatable (and later permanent) full-body sanitization units at building entrances. I wouldn’t mind having one built into the front door.

Perception, it’s everything isn’t it. There have been lots of tragedies around here but another factor is that people who died don’t really get mentioned. We see it on the news but the everyday ‘local’ awareness just isn’t there in the communities. As individuals they just disappear. I see it because of my girlfriend’s doctor’s practice. And we’re very intensely struck by the virus. Another factor is probably that in Europe we’ve been through the plague - we know there are certain deadly phenomena we can’t control and will never control (the future is an illusion, a famous European once said and he knew all about deadly phenomena) and are more like, oh well when we die we die :slight_smile:

And yes when a situation can result in a global disaster, I don’t believe it should be part of the political arena anymore - this is territory where scientists need to take over.

I think it’s a natural occidental reaction to not like covering the face. When I visited Asia though, I remember seeing so many people wearing masks. After seeing that, I just try to imagine that I’m in HK and it helps ignore the stigma. Then again, my province just made masks mandatory, so it’s somewhat a mute point.

They should be viewed like headphones versus a boombox. Sure, you have the right walk around with your boombox. As a courtesy to those around us (especially with my musical tastes), most of us wear headphones without a second thought.

good analogy!

Nassim Taleb has supported Trump in the past, but in this podcast he lays out the statistical reasoning behind using masks, even if they are not effective.

Worth a listen…

I want to plug a Syracuse ID classmate’s company here, Chris has been working in this space since 2015. I believe his interest was initially precipitated from his experiences with respiratory problems encountered while opening the Continuum Shanghai office. Their product line has been revamped (look, no more valves) and is now available for order in North America. He’s a good designer and a stand-up guy.

Those are cool! Thanks!

This issue has polarized opinion. Some of my friends–who are intelligent, not comically liberal, and very kind and respectful otherwise–argue that the call for wearing masks in public has gotten coercive. In the absence of a national law mandating the use of masks in public spaces, it is difficult to have productive/enlightening discussions about this. Is this call really an infringement of out civil liberties? I don’t think so at all, but I also think we need to understand the other point of view. People are being hounded for taking off their masks for a few seconds owing to discomfort. This friend thus claims that even people who appreciate the necessity of masks in public (and in fact do wear masks) are being hounded for seeking momentary comfort (necessary comfort perhaps?). Some have no choice but to wear them for extended durations, and that is a difficult situation to be in. Some empathy for them would be great. I wear a mask because I think it’s responsible, but also because I don’t want someone coming up to me and telling me that I’m erring. This is contact I’d avoid if I wear masks. No matter where one stands on this, physical distancing is non-negotiable (if you can afford it), and we simply must wear masks and isolate if we present symptoms. And get tested of course. As sociologists have been saying in this regard, if we have rights and liberties, we also have duties and responsibilities. They go hand in hand; can’t have one without the other. But definitely a heated topic with my folks and friends.

I am Dutch so at the end of the day I believe in tolerance policies (non-coercive where possible). Of course, with this virus it has to be obligatory to wear masks in crowded places. In the same way it needs to be required to sanitize ones hands in places where people come into physical contact with each other a lot - also indirectly and especially with plastic media, like record, clothes, and toy stores. And the 6-feet (here 5-feet) rule really works if promoted well. I still see the virus as something mostly non-airborn and requiring droplets to survive (hmm reminds of another fatal one in the 1980s), even if there is recent evidence of airborne properties.

The boombox analogy is a good one in a society where people are all antsy and fearful for things like this. But on the other hand, mask-wearing can become the comfortable standard. They really don’t get all that messy and gooey on the inside as some opponents state. Just wash every few days. But some of them can be hard to breathe through. So it’s a matter of developing one that is comfortable, FFP-1 functional, washable, and fashionable and so far it’s one or the other.

I’m hoping that necessity will lead to innovation in masks. When bicycle helmets became mandatory it lead to the EPS foam helmets that are common today. Before that, hard-shell helmets were heavy, uncomfortable, and not very well ventilated.

That’s a suitable analogy, though racers and riders were wearing helmets prior to them being made mandatory for professional cyclists participating in races. Another corollary to that was helmet use regulations were applied differently from country to country or depending what body was promoting the race. Where it falls short is that helmet wearing only protects one person.
Where I hope it does NOT follow the helmet analogy is in greatly elevating the prices of protective gear. A $120 helmet is now considered entry-level, with standard half-shell helmets in the $200-300 range, and full-face mtb helmets costing even more.

Say no more…

I hope they include a fully tinted version and Daft Punk SKU’s in the near future so nobody recognizes the dork inside.

Since airplanes already are wired with Oxygen masks, I’m kind of surprised someone hasn’t figured out how to just retrofit the system by now that we all can just keep our individual air pods on during the duration of the flight. Who needs pressurized cabins anyways.

Now that’s a nice idea.

If only that oxygen source could get you from the front door, through the terminal, to the gate, on the plane, through the connecting airport terminal, off the plane, to baggage claim, and to your waiting cab/rental car…

Bump. Just because a political thread adds to the spice of the boards. :slight_smile:

I wanted to add a bit of the pesky science thing since the pandemic is “over”. Link to the article is below. Crappy cloth redneck masks don’t work, duh. N95, surgical do reduce the risk of the transmission of covid.

A systematic review and meta-analysis published in the journal ‘Lancet ’ identified 44 relevant comparative studies in healthcare and non healthcare workers and concluded that both N95 and surgical masks might result in a sharp reduction in virus infection [4]. Another meta-analysis included 21 studies that suggested mask use provided a significant protective effect in preventing respiratory virus transmission [6].

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@designbreathing

I’m still waiting on that treatment to boost the immune system. Or the study that shows the use of masks reduces the efficacy of the immune system. I tried on PubMed, but I’m only sheeple. You know everything. Please, do tell.

:+1:

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