Re: Machines v. Humans

February 21st, 2018, 9:54 am

User avatar
Mr-914
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5785
Joined: January 12th, 2004, 7:44 am
Location: Montréal, QC
iab: I would argue designers co-create culture. The objects that resonate (like the iMac, iPod and iPhone) drive the culture forward a little bit. For example, I think that Apple's designers did drive the 2000s modernism bus forward more than anyone else.
Ray Jepson

"The key to success in this business is to find a boss who doesn't care." - Mike Rowe

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 21st, 2018, 11:08 am

iab
full self-realization
full self-realization
Posts: 2667
Joined: January 5th, 2004, 6:03 pm
But where is Apple's modernism in the kitchen dishes section of WalMart?

It ain't there. And it ain't there in the door section of Home Depot and it ain't in men's shoes at Kohls.

It is only a conversation on an internet board that 8 people visit. It is not culture.

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 21st, 2018, 11:28 am

User avatar
yo
Administration
Administration
Posts: 17088
Joined: January 5th, 2004, 6:57 pm
Coroflot: 67242
Location: SoCal
iab, I don't think that is a totally fair assessment. There will always be multiple simultaneous trends, counter trends, and just bad design and taste. While it might not be at Walmart, it was at Target (largely moved through, but still can be found in some sections) and Ikea. Mid market it did very well at the likes of West Elm, CB2, and even moved things at Crate and Barrel and Room & Board... and of course at the high end with DWR. I think we will see a return to modernism in shared devices like autonomous transport. I could even see a bifurcation with owned objects going through extreme customization and shared objects becoming super clean, devoid of expression. You can kind of see this already with the crazy customization (not always tasteful) that Bentley, Ferrari, and RR are doing.

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 22nd, 2018, 10:00 am

User avatar
Mr-914
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5785
Joined: January 12th, 2004, 7:44 am
Location: Montréal, QC
iab: First, I disagree that the recent modernist trend didn't trickle elsewhere. In fact, the most recent Ikea offerings are very modern. I see similar things in Wal-Mart.

Second, as Yo stated, there are multiple trends. I think one of the good things about our era is that there is more diversity than ever, it's just not available everywhere at the same time.

My architectural background reminds me of the industrial / steam punk trend. That had been percolating for 15+ years on the internet and through some very specialized retailers. Now industrial styled lighting is in the big box stores.

Last, is the cultural influence. I think it's not a coincidence that electronic dance music and Apple are popular at the same time. I think graphics have moved on, but maybe 5 years ago everything getting very simple. I think of Google's flat design language and even MS metro. I think if I was more aware of fiction and TV, I could probably make some links to those, but alas I watch very little TV and seldom read fiction.
Ray Jepson

"The key to success in this business is to find a boss who doesn't care." - Mike Rowe

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 22nd, 2018, 1:02 pm

iab
full self-realization
full self-realization
Posts: 2667
Joined: January 5th, 2004, 6:03 pm
I agree these things you mention exist. Where I disagree is with the significance that designers place on them.

They rock a designer's world. They rock a tiny portion of the first world. That's it. Funny no designer here has mentioned country music, #1 at least in the US. Why do you suppose that is?

I'll walk into Target today and see the vast majority being non-modern design. Sure, I can find modern, but how long did Phillipe Starck's stuff last there? 1 second? 2 seconds? And steampunk? Really? Give me marketshare numbers. Let me know when it breaks 0.01%.

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 22nd, 2018, 1:04 pm

iab
full self-realization
full self-realization
Posts: 2667
Joined: January 5th, 2004, 6:03 pm
Mr-914 wrote: electronic dance music and Apple are popular at the same time.
I was dancing to house in Chicago in the late 80s, early 90s. Right when Apple was deep in the crapper.

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 22nd, 2018, 11:16 pm

User avatar
junglebrodda
full self-realization
full self-realization
Posts: 804
Joined: April 4th, 2004, 5:11 am
iab wrote:I agree these things you mention exist. Where I disagree is with the significance that designers place on them.

They rock a designer's world. They rock a tiny portion of the first world. That's it. Funny no designer here has mentioned country music, #1 at least in the US. Why do you suppose that is?

I'll walk into Target today and see the vast majority being non-modern design. Sure, I can find modern, but how long did Phillipe Starck's stuff last there? 1 second? 2 seconds? And steampunk? Really? Give me marketshare numbers. Let me know when it breaks 0.01%.
i take your point but:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/mus ... 990873001/ #siderbar: this interactive map of popular music across the globe is pretty interesting: https://pudding.cool/2018/01/music-map/

country may still be the top seller of physical albums tho, but, and this may be due to my preferences, hip-hop 'feels' like its has been the most commercial, if not the most popular, genre for some time now...yet there are some people who still may not think it significant or pay any attention to it at all...

there definitely might be an overestimation of the influence of some the more pet 'designerly' aesthetics that is somewhat separate from the masses (still don't want to believe bladerunner 2049 wasn't appealing to gen pop) and could agree that there are many aesthetic trends that probably won't ever reach or even approach critical mass, i think it could still be culture tho and still be mined for influence & inspiration; which does translate into all different kinds & tiers of product in ways that are subtle...
no ideas original....there is nothing new under the sun...it is never what you do but how it is done

https://www.behance.net/a0o

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 23rd, 2018, 8:03 am

iab
full self-realization
full self-realization
Posts: 2667
Joined: January 5th, 2004, 6:03 pm
I really found that interactive map to be very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Machines v. Humans

February 23rd, 2018, 10:09 am

User avatar
Mr-914
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5785
Joined: January 12th, 2004, 7:44 am
Location: Montréal, QC
I just heard that Best Buy is discontinuing music sales. Very soon it will be near impossible to buy a CD in a store.

Country is probably bigger than rock. Chris Stapleton is really good, much better than most of the rock acts I stumble upon. I actually don't like most hip-hop and EDM. I'm a punk fan and becoming a bit of a prog rock fan. I just like music so much that I try to be aware of what is trending.

Back to the subject of modern design, I just though of Casper that's been getting a lot of traction:

Image

Very simple fabrics, few colors. The furniture is even modern. (OK, shaker, but still pretty clean!)

It's hard to find good examples outside of tech, because tech is driving the culture and evolving faster than some other sectors. For example, at my last job they made storage bins. Some of the molds were 10+ years old. They can't respond to trends because their pay-back horizon is just too long.
Ray Jepson

"The key to success in this business is to find a boss who doesn't care." - Mike Rowe

Re: Machines v. Humans

March 5th, 2018, 4:45 am

User avatar
ralphzoontjens
full self-realization
full self-realization
Posts: 887
Joined: February 3rd, 2010, 10:20 am
Coroflot: 76078
Location: Tilburg, the Netherlands
Design for cultural change, that is a noble goal. In the end, it is people who change mindsets, values and as a result, cultures. Technology and media have always been more powerful agents of change than the carriers, the devices and their design. But it does have an influence. In popular culture, Alien had an influence wiping away the entire hunky-dory household model of men and women, we were suddenly capable of becoming heroic individuals. And H.R. Giger's sense for design was indispensable for that movie.

Then in the 80's design helped people becoming more independent and expressive. My First Sony, graffiti, Madonna. Nike established itself as one of the most powerful brands and made people have a strong individuality and active mindset. When we all wore our first Nike Air Max sneakers, that definitely changed us and the way we lived, our culture. It felt like being on top of the foodchain in a new world, in a way. Apple continued that and gives everyone a sense of being part of a high-fashion type culture and now brands are also playing into people's creative powers more and more.

As far as the machines vs. humans debate goes I am mostly curious and see that it is about the combination of man+machine, each being good at their own thing. This is the time where AI is going to influence design the most of any emerging technology, we see it now with sex dolls (a rather strange sign of our times though..) but we are only entering a new space for new concepts driving our culture forward.
http://www.id-z.one
IDZone - Product Design || Visualisation || 3D Printing
Reply