Re: Let's pretend....

January 7th, 2011, 8:06 am

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Mr-914
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Jon: I see where you are going now.

I feel the same way. I think any intelligent person quickly learns that we don't need very much that money buys & that chasing it is a fairly hollow challenge.

I feel the same way about the future now that I have for the last decade. The cost of basic goods is quickly dropping to close to zero and less people are being involved in actually creating things (manufacturing, farming, etc). Eventually, we will realize that there is no scarcity and our economic concept will fail. After that, we will restructure our whole society around supporting people's self-actualization.

However, in the short term, there will be turmoil. It won't be evenly distributed. I was just in Arizona for the holidays. Nevada, Arizona and some of California are just a hiccup away from a massive draught. We've already seen holes in the US electric grid (the NYC blackout, Cali blackouts, rising costs). There is a reason that I still live in Canada: Hydro-electricity and ten times more fresh water than the population can use.

Re: Let's pretend....

January 7th, 2011, 11:16 am

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yssagul
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nunoCR wrote: "Let's assume that we are interstellar travelers, originating from earth, as it is known today, and in our journey we stumble upon, amazingly enough, an exact replica of our planet, the only difference between the current state of this new planet versus our own is that there are no human begins, human evolution has not occurred. Hence there are no establishment orders, no social arrogances, no money, nothing to limit our possibility. Given the advanced scientific knowledge we have today, how would we go about redesigning our social infrastructure from the ground up, with the goal to create, nothing less, but the most efficient, conscientious and sustainable society as possible?"

Reading that makes me think of how difficult it would be with all of the burdens that the modern human has taken upon themselves. Order has evolved over a long period of time and trying to establish Order, especially on an empty planet sounds like disaster. Sure it might pan out, but the politics would be as tumultuous as they are today. Just look at Battlestar Galactica when they tried to live on New Caprica. It only worked out in the end when they went completely primal on Earth.

Re: Let's pretend....

January 7th, 2011, 1:27 pm

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Scott Bennett
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mo-i wrote:P.S:

This thread may gain urgency sooner than you thought, when you went to bed last night:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-0 ... ences.html
It will be interesting to see whether the children* in charge of running our country let it go to the brink over this. Part of me hopes they do it, just because I'm curious to see what it looks like when a country implodes. And I have another passport and can leave when it does.

*Even a fairly dim child would not look at a 33% budget deficit and think it can be fixed by 1)not raising taxes and 2)not cutting the military, social security, or medicare. Along with interest on the debt, which obviously can't be cut, those three things account for roughly 70% of our total expenditures. So even if we eliminated every single other function that the federal government performs, we'd still have a deficit.

Re: Let's pretend....

January 7th, 2011, 1:30 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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yssagul wrote: Just look at Battlestar Galactica when they tried to live on New Caprica. It only worked out in the end when they went completely primal on Earth.
I am so glad there are other Battlestar Galactica geeks on here :)

This is a very similar concept to what they analyze throughout that show. The difference between my thoughts and those in BSG is that theirs are based in the concept of fatalism. I'm more in the belief that technology has caused a significant amount of the discord in our society. I also believe it is capable of bringing us (me?) back to a sense of equilibrium.

Re: Let's pretend....

January 7th, 2011, 5:05 pm

zippyflounder
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ip_wirelessly wrote:
Hoodzy wrote:We all know the first thing we are going to run out of is clean water. 15 years for 1/3 the population and i'm sure it will just get worse from then on.

We can all envision the demise. I have no question that will all the end of the world TV shows around (After Humans, or whatever its called) that surmising how it will FAIL is the easy part.

This, believe it or not, is more of an optimistic thread. Its more about the reboot of society. If things to go hell in a handbasket, Barring complete extinction, society will have to reset itself. It will have a period of years where the expectations of excess will be eliminated.

I'm curious as to what is necessary.

As chrisdougherty pointed out, there's Maslow's needs. Basic, biologicaly needs to SURVIVE. But I'm talking about the point where society continues to tick along in a way that keeps people happy, but doesn't cause failure.

Burger Kings and fast food disappears. Vehicles are limited to 1 per household. Possibly even rental only? In your house, do you have a computer? A television? Books? Microwave? You definitely don't need 3 or 4 of each. Products are limited to a certain consumption limit per year?

A forced trade off system is, effectively, established. Everyone gets the same amount of fuel per year. So if you want an SUV, fine, but it may sit idle from October to January because you burnt through your rations.

A lot of this comes from me trying to make sense of all the SHIT that is in my house. My son comes home from McDonald's with his grandparents and another crap toy from his Happy Meal gets played with for 15 minutes then goes in a drawer never to be played with again.

How much is enough for me, my kids, my family to be happy. Can we get away from "The Joneses"?
there is always a black market...........

Re: Let's pretend....

January 8th, 2011, 11:29 am

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nunoCR
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yssagul wrote: Reading that makes me think of how difficult it would be with all of the burdens that the modern human has taken upon themselves. Order has evolved over a long period of time and trying to establish Order, especially on an empty planet sounds like disaster. Sure it might pan out, but the politics would be as tumultuous as they are today. Just look at Battlestar Galactica when they tried to live on New Caprica. It only worked out in the end when they went completely primal on Earth.
Sure it would be a colossal task but let's try to be more specific.
Burdens such as? and why would you have them?
Why does it sound like disaster to create something from scratch?
Why would politics need to be as they are today, how instead could they be practiced?
I will try to watch that episode... but try to avoid science fiction as proof of example.
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