April 12th, 2008, 12:57 am

eskepsisinidorski
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Hi Rafael.

I don't exactly know what the true facts are in this situation. All I can say is treat this as a learning experience and move on. I do understand what it feels like to see a lot of work "inspired" by your designs, especially the ones done in a very blunt manner. But who knows nowadays unless you've documented every single thing involved and made sure all bases were covered.

While I do agree that "copy" is a harsh tone considering that it has not been proven, I can see how emotion will cause such a word to come out. In design, there's a lot of fine lines for sure.

Let me share a little story on "copying" though. I used to work for this one company several years ago and sometimes, the marketing and sales people would go trend shopping for things to be "inspired" by. One time, one of the shoppers brought back a toy and told me that I should copy it. That toy was something I designed for my first job out of college :P

Another is having a Chinese vendor mistake you for another company and sell you your own designs and claim that their team designed it.

April 13th, 2008, 10:18 pm

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lingmiester
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Hi Rafael,

It looks like you did not apply for design protection before you launch your product. So in this instance you have very little options for now. Unfortunately even with a copyright statement, it means very little unless you enforce it. But do consult a lawyer to see that even if you had a patent, whether you could do something in the first place. But from what i see it likely you might not be able to enforce it anyway.

Regardless you are right, your solution is a much better refinement, so I suggest, that even though he may "copy" your idea, he will always be one step behind you as you own your own brain (thinking).

So my advice is spend your energy thinking up of new things and bringing your own design thinking to the next level. That way it becomes very difficult for others to emulate.

This is coming from a designer working in Asia the land of many emulation and "inspirations".

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 2:38 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Thanks everyone for your opinions and help! I really appreciate them!

Well, just a little update:

http://www.core77.com/blog/object_cultu ... p#comments

And:

http://www.liquidlightsite.com/


Hahahahahaha....It´s pathetic.

Cheers,

Raf.
http://www.rafaelmorgan.com/
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 2:43 pm

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IDiot
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If it's any consolation when I saw that on the front page, the first thing I did was think to look for this thread.

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 3:21 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Thanks man! I really appreciate your help!

Well, in fact, I don´t really care about those copycats anymore. Sadly, I must say that I got used to them, because a lot of my concepts and ideas had already been used as "inspiration" by other "designers".

In this particular case, the Light Drop is being produced and sold by a great company, which certainly will contact Ms. Tanya Clarke very soon.

But, if there´s one thing I think I´ll never understand, is why someone will "borrow" someone else´s idea and promote it, claiming it´s the most original idea ever....I guess I´ll never understand it, because I still believe in ethics.

When I started this thread (more than 3 years ago), I was very naive. Now, in the first place, I think that I never should have started this thread.... Unfortunately, this kind of "inspiration" is still a very common practice in the Design/Arts world...And I guess it will never change.

But I don´t really care, sincerely. As long as nobody becomes a millionaire by "borrowing" one of my designs, I´m ok with it.

Cheers,

Raf.
http://www.rafaelmorgan.com/
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 4:26 pm

thirdnorth
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Just in case anyone is interested, I was forwarded this article recently concerning copyrights and patents. If you haven't patented your design, which is a long and expensive process, the section "Trade Dress" might still provide some protection. http://www.cwclaw.com/publications/arti ... spx?id=508

From the article:

"Trade dress is the overall visual image of a product, including its design. Trade dress is protected under U.S. trademark law and to be entitled to trade dress protection, you must demonstrate: (1) that a significant number of the public associates the product with the designer; and (2) that the design is not a “functional feature” of the product, meaning that it can be separated from the purpose that the product serves. To prove trade dress infringement, you have to show that there is a "likelihood of confusion" between your design and the trade dress of the knock-off."
Design without purpose is impossible.

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 4:33 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Thanks for the tips! They are useful indeed!

Cheers,

Raf.
http://www.rafaelmorgan.com/
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 5:28 pm

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scrotum
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I'm sure this shit happens all the time, I'd bet you someone could dig out a similar idea dating to before you were even born. Sometimes it's also how you execute the idea that sets you apart.

Re:

October 4th, 2010, 10:13 pm

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PackageID
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cg wrote:Don't underestimate the power of this discussion thread.

So far over 200 designers have viewed it. Because Core77 is heavily trafficed, Google will index it and place it high on the search results of anyone googling his name for years to come.
I would agree. Be very careful what you are accusing people of on these boards. A quick Google search found some designs that are very close and same general idea of what you produced. It is possible for two people to generate the same direction with out the others influence.
Light Blubs.jpg
Light Blubs.jpg (9.56 KiB) Viewed 1303 times
Next-Drop_3_gruppe_220.jpg
Next-Drop_3_gruppe_220.jpg (8.63 KiB) Viewed 1303 times
liquid-light-03.jpg
liquid-light-03.jpg (18.19 KiB) Viewed 1303 times
-Justin Coble-

"Never let the same dog bite you twice" -Chuck Berry-

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 10:31 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Hahahahaha! I knew it was going to happen again...Have you really read the concept behind Ms.Clarke work?

Formal coincidences might happen, but formal and conceptual coincidences are almost impossible to happen.

But as I said before, I don´t really care about it. I have many more things to worry about. I´m not dying because of it.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!
http://www.rafaelmorgan.com/
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 4th, 2010, 11:07 pm

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rkuchinsky
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Dorh protest too much. You drag up a 5 month old thread to say you don't care. Doesnt wash. Plus I don't think the genesis or source idea was ever really proven. I'd second not calling out others in a forum like this. Not good form. Not professional.

R
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Re: Someone stole my design!

October 5th, 2010, 6:36 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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All right...So someone makes a copy one of my designs (including conceptual text FCS!!) from 2007, and I´m the one who is wrong! Oh! I get it! Maybe I´m so stupid that I don´t understand the chronological order of time, or maybe my notions of right and wrong are inverted...Anyway...I´m sure I´m wrong. I think I´m crazy!

Or...Maybe I´m the one who is copying from the future?

Maybe all the guys who commented in this http://www.core77.com/blog/object_cultu ... _17545.asp post are crazy...I´m sure they are...There are a lot of crazy designers out there.

Anyway, sorry for the irony and stupidity. I´m wrong since I was born! ;)
http://www.rafaelmorgan.com/
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 5th, 2010, 7:41 pm

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Replying with an arrogant pretentious post like the one above only makes you look worse. I was saying that these things do happen and is part of being a designer. Also as you should know, no idea is original, and it is ignorant to think that. Did they copy you? I have no idea, nor do I care. Whining about it here on these boards does nothing but make you look bad. If you are that concerned than take it up in court or patten your design.
-Justin Coble-

"Never let the same dog bite you twice" -Chuck Berry-

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 5th, 2010, 8:16 pm

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simonr
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Rafael,

I do not think you are fully understanding the community voice.

You are liberally using the word "copy" when talking about anothers design WITHOUT substantial proof of their plagiarism. You seem to be very apologetic with continuous use of words like "sorry" as a veil to push your underlying agenda. At this point, after all of the advice that has been offered here, you still continue posting these accusations instead of truly being "sorry" and removing/editing all of your previous statements.

I am not sure what you are after here but it certainly will not be any sympathy in regards to your situation.

Please take the time to carefully read all of the comments again and heed the advice being offered.

Regards,

Re: Someone stole my design!

October 5th, 2010, 8:40 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Is he arrogant? Is he pretentious? No! He is the Psychic Designer who copies things from the future!!Hahhahahahaha!! Looks like a terrific slogan!

Just kidding! You guys don´t have any sense of humor!

Seriously, I´m one of the most honest and ethical person I know. Researching is a huge part of my work. I usually spend hours researching before releasing a new project, just to make sure there´s nothing similar already released on the market.

If you google my name, or if you take a good look at my works, you will see that all I have is good critics and feeback. I have an immaculate reputation.

I know there´s a thin line between copy and "inspiration" but for me, this line is very very clear.

When I first started this thread (3 years ago! Time flies, ah?) , I was very inexperienced about the design market and that´s why I was really mad. Now, I just started it again, because I think it´s useful for us all.

In the first place,I was looking for help and advices, but as people started to point their fingers on me, I realized that, somewhat, some guys were just very flexible about what is and what is not a copy.

In both cases, where I thought ( and still think) I was copied, I have sent several e-mails for the designers, and sadly got no response at all. I´m sorry, but silence is not a good answer for me.

In both cases, if one of them had replied my e-mails proving their creations came before mine, I would immediately apologize and take my product of the market. That´s how I work.

Guys, everyone who have already sent me an e-mail, know that I´m a very open minded guy. Everyday, I take a really good time to answer dozens of e-mails from fans and design students from all over the world, asking for advice and this kind of things.

For now, this is my last post on this thread. If something similar happens in the next weeks, months or years, I´ll update this post again, despite knowing that I probably wont be surprised with the replies.

Do you know why I don´t take this thing to court? I´m Brazilian. I live in Brazil. Do you know how much would cost this kind of international law sue?

Thanks for the help. If anyone ever needs my help, just drop me a note. I´m always glad to help when I can, specially fellows designers.

Rafael Morgan.

Ps: I´m not really sure about what I´m looking for here...I´m not really sure about anything. As far as I can prove, you´re just a bunch of letters in my computer´s screen! OMG....I´m getting crazy again... See you again in couple of years! With a brand new copy from the future for you to bash! ;)
http://www.rafaelmorgan.com/
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
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