February 6th, 2008, 4:37 pm

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Scott Bennett
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Rafael Morgan wrote:Hey guys, calm down a bit please.
Good idea. My advice: delete the thread until you can present some solid evidence with rationality instead of emotion.

As to your other question: "what legal providences should I take without having to spend thousands of dollars?" The answer is: nothing. Defending intellectual property is expensive. Assuming, of course, that your allegations are 100% true, the payoff in this case would be nil. I don't know about EU law, but in the US (if you've got a valid patent, that is) the most you could hope for is an injunction on the other party continuing to sell the product, and maybe reasonable royalties on their previous sales. I'm guessing the previous sales here are <€1000 total, so your reasonable 5% royalty would amount to about €50. And you would probably spend at least €5000 to collect it. But wait! If you can prove willful infringement (you almost certainly can't), you get triple damages. €150!

If this guy wants to fight, he countersues and claims you stole his idea, and that your patent should be invalidated. Then you get years of depositions, hearings, court dates, etc. In the end, your lawyer is the only winner. Welcome to the real world, and the stuff they don't teach you in school.

February 6th, 2008, 4:43 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Yeah...
Thanks for the advice Scott.
In fact, they should teach more about this kind of stuff in school.

February 6th, 2008, 5:34 pm

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yo
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Rafael Morgan wrote: I guess you´re right. Now every time someone google for Maxime Chanet or Scenedo lampe this post will come up
That is a double edge sword. How many lights on the market look almost the same? What about the faucet designer you took inspiration from?

I've always loved your design for those lamps, I remember when you first posted them, but I think you need to let it go Rafael. This only looks bad. That is coming from someone who has looked bad on these forums many times (that would be me).

February 6th, 2008, 6:18 pm

jna14
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"And most part of his products are crap anyway.
Talent is one thing that he will never have..."

Dude, bad form.... it is a small community, in fact I did a project for my first year art school that used a facet as a lamp... let it go...

February 6th, 2008, 6:22 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Yeah guys...you are right.
I will sit back here and relax...maybe play some blues guitar.
Thanks so much for your advice.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks Yo!

February 6th, 2008, 10:10 pm

mas2
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Hello Rafael,

I am glad you have calmed down a bit. As I am still learning about this too I wanted to post some of my questions/thoughts.

Did you patent your design before showing it anywhere? If not then I thought that because its in the public domain via net and magazines then anyone can do what they like with it - as I said though I am not sure.

Also, you mentioned that it had won a competition. A few competitions I know state that if the design wins then it becomes their property. Is this the case with yours?

Do you have plans to produce your design or have you made one yet? While I like your design and noticed that the renderings looked really nice, I have my doubts about how well your design would translate into a real product. Like when concept car sketches become a real car and lose a lot in translation.

February 6th, 2008, 11:44 pm

carton
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Well I'm glad we've all cooled out a bit. that seems nice. lol

Raphael, Im going to assume you weren't suggesting I was unethical for telling you peoples ideas get ripped off sometimes so welcome to the professional world. And I'm not sure how they roll down in Brazil, but up here this is how we do, every corporation would straight up shank you in an alley for intel on the next ipod. And unless you have dated (and hopefully notarized) sketches I would drop it. And as was said earlier go back through and edit or delete ALL of the accusatory posts, and hope no one has printed them out.

At Southern Illinois, we did discuss ethics quite a bit. Thats why we all sign and date our sketches. Just because you think something up first or even make a few sketches of it doesn't actually even give you claim to it. This isn't 1-800-invention or whatever.

Plagerism is serious business and I don't think this is the venue for it.

also, a fun fact, Im thinking France employs the Napoleonic code, which actually places the burden of proof on the accused. So in this case it actually might be guilty until proven innocent. But I have been incorrect in the past. :D
Just some guy, trying to figure it out too.

February 9th, 2008, 6:14 am

Fish fingers
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Dude, If you are talented, someone will copy your idea. The first time it happens it is emotional.
Do you know the designer Emiko Oki? Her Trophy tableware may well have inspired the design in the link below. Personally I find it hard to believe otherwise. And her other design (Pint glass series) has been copied by a chinese designer(in plastic) and may well have inspired the Inside Out glasses sold by Charles and Marie. On the other hand Weiki Somers produced something like this before anyone else(double wall glassware) so.....

http://mocoloco.com/archives/003305.php

www.emikooki.com

February 9th, 2008, 12:11 pm

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rkuchinsky
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hope this works out for your rafael.

i'd suggest we all use the word "copy" a little more carefully. ideas can come from lots of sources, and similarities don't necessarily mean copying. inspiration is also something totally different, and the core of design i believe.

sure some designs are straight knock offs, cheap ipod-looking mp3 players (eyePod?), etc, but lots of work these days in the age of the internet is also as i see more a product of simultaneous inspiration, cross-cultural thinking and inspiration.

just saying that as designers, we are all inspired by something, and there is a very fine (and legal) line between copying, appropriation and inspiration.

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February 10th, 2008, 6:31 am

Fish fingers
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I second that; Design trends and the amount of designers the world over constantly producing concepts mean that it is inevitable tha ideas cross over. But I feel a designer should respect anothers work if it came out first. I designed something 2 yrs ago, did the research and found something very similar. As a result I never released the design.

A couple of examples of designs 'crossing over';

I just came back from Stockholm and Front showed some new work (padded Faux wood seating) which is the same concept as another design about to be produced by Droog. I don't think Front would intentionally copy someone else. Another designer [**name edited out by Moderator**] produced metal coated wood tables last yr. This innovative technique was shown as a square sample the yr before at Milan by Steve Jenson- I witnessed [**edit**] looking at the sample!! :shock:

April 5th, 2008, 6:47 pm

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rkuchinsky
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dont mean to stoke the fires given i dont know the history/provenance of the design, but came across this today via notcot.org that look very similar to the concept you originally posted. the name (though pretty obvious) is the same too, "drop".

Image

http://www.patasign.com/design/drop-di- ... hetti.html


just food for thought/discussion. no plagiarism accusations intended.

R
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April 11th, 2008, 9:43 am

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Back in 1990 me and my brother had a faucet with a lightbulb in our playing room :roll:
It was ceramic and a friend of mine broke it when he tried to turn the knob.

We shouldn't be to possessive when it comes to ideas.

April 11th, 2008, 11:48 am

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mrtwills
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I agree with what is being said above. Maybe he did steal a design, or maybe not. There are enough differences in the products to both be in the world. Look at any major product in the world, and of course there are one's that look and do the same thing. A computer mouse, guitar, watch, shoe, laptop, bike..... Are they not all copies of the first version? Maybe just feel good about yourself for coming up a with a design that someone felt the need to be "inspired"

April 11th, 2008, 12:55 pm

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TaylorWelden
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a public apology to the French designer who was getting accused in this thread is still extensively long over due

however, I'm not sure if the accusing designer is aware of this or just doesn't care

I figured it was obvious, even to go back and remove the comments that publicly destroy the other (the original) designer's name,

no steps made, at least one bridge burned, and then p*ssed all over -- all in front of a large audience
Taylor Welden

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drop light

April 11th, 2008, 3:41 pm

Diko Day
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Rafael,
This is a rite of passage for every designer. We all have sketch books filled with designs that have yet to see the light of day. Many times I've seen designs being published or produced that I sketched years ago. You can take the other designs as proof that you are on the right track and your designs are valid in the market. Also, don't get hung up on a design. The Drop Light has gotten tons of attention and into production. Sounds like a success! Now on to the next big thing.
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