February 6th, 2008, 2:27 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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Devil's Advocate Time...we've been down this "copy" route before.

How do we know that you didn't copy/draw inspiration from his design?

You have provided zero proof that your timeline preceeded his. If in fact your design did NOT preceed his, this thread could hurt you. In this context, it is slanderous, frankly.

Let's consider it from the other angle:

A post from a guy named Maxime Chanet shows up on the Core77 Design forums claiming Rafael Morgan stole HIS design. This Rafael Morgan dude won all sorts of awards from it. Mr. Chanet asks everyone to write to Mr. Morgan asking him to stop. Chanet gets his posting up first and wins the backing of the forum.

The first to scream plagerism, or the one who screams plagerism the loudest doesn't win. Take some cues from the Orbea/Kestrel debacle: http://boards.core77.com/viewtopic.php? ... ole+design

February 6th, 2008, 2:31 pm

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Bbarn
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cg wrote:Don't underestimate the power of this discussion thread.

So far over 200 designers have viewed it. Because Core77 is heavily trafficed, Google will index it and place it high on the search results of anyone googling his name for years to come.
Does this mean we're all gonna be famous!?!

Good luck with the project, You will have to post some final product shots for us to see!

February 6th, 2008, 2:45 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Yeah ip_wirelessly, that´s valid point of view.
But I will have to disagree with it.

--My design had a lot of exposure, including French magazines Home and Architectural Digest. We can´t forget he is French either.
--My design won a third prize in a cool design competition.
--If you google for "Light Drop" you will have more then 27.000 results.
--Before taking it to production, I did a huge research with all key-words related to this concept.

After all this exposure, no one contacted me saying something about design coincidences or similarities....this kind of stuff.
Last edited by Rafael Morgan on February 11th, 2008, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

February 6th, 2008, 2:58 pm

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TaylorWelden
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I researched this Maxime Chanet guy a bit......

I've found blogs reviewing his lighting products back to 2005.

I also found a comment on a blog specifically talking about his 'light drop' version March 11th of 2007.
This specific blog was documenting his 'light drop' in full-on production version, on the shelves, listing details where to purchase the design.

Found another post listing his personal website went up public in 2005.

Found another blog showing a quality photograph of a production version of his 'light drop' in back March 2007.

.
Last edited by TaylorWelden on February 6th, 2008, 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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February 6th, 2008, 2:59 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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You can disagree all you want. You still have not PROVEN that they copied you. I repeat....Mr. Chanet is not guilty until proven innocent. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty.

I have seen design's like yours in other's portfolios. You've gotten it out to production, congrats. Make your money. Take it to court if he has in fact "stolen" your design and is damaging your sales.

I will tell you, that I am more inclined to write this guy and let him know that you are dragging his name through the mud without due process, not to ask him to stop doing what he's doing.

I strongly believe that these discussion forums are not correct forum for this problem.

And if I were the judge, based on what has been presented here is that you don't have a leg to stand on. Your design is a custom design, his is based on found objects.

So there you go. My conclusion has been drawn.

February 6th, 2008, 3:03 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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TaylorWelden wrote:I've found blogs reviewing his lighting products back to 2005.

I also found a comment on a blog specifically talking about his 'light drop' version March of 2007.

Found another post listing his personal website went up public in 2005.

Found another blog showing a quality photograph of a production version of his 'light drop' in back March 2007.
There you go, Rafael. Dates that preceed yours. How can I be sure you are not the one plagerising?

The fact is that I can't. No one on here can. And calling someone out for doing so without due process is uncalled for.

February 6th, 2008, 3:31 pm

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scb
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your design is 300x nicer....so yeah....often immitated, never duplicated. be honored.

question though.... does your light dim as you turn the faucet tap?...as in turning on and off the light...rad

February 6th, 2008, 3:32 pm

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Bbarn
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TaylorWelden wrote:I researched this Maxime Chanet guy a bit......

I've found blogs reviewing his lighting products back to 2005.

I also found a comment on a blog specifically talking about his 'light drop' version March 11th of 2007.
This specific blog was documenting his 'light drop' in full-on production version, on the shelves, listing details where to purchase the design.

Found another post listing his personal website went up public in 2005.

Found another blog showing a quality photograph of a production version of his 'light drop' in back March 2007.

.
looks like we got a case!

This is a good lesson! Not just in the lighting world, but design as a whole. Do your research, there is a good chance you might think you have the most original design/idea in the world. In reality, theres a good chance it is out there in some form. I see stuff like that in the lighting industry a lot. You think you have this great idea, start doing some research, and some dude did it in 1954!

Rafael, now is probably a good time to chill out on the name calling and finger pointing. Save some face...

I hope this other guy gets wind and makes his case on here. I am interested to here his side of this.

February 6th, 2008, 3:42 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Hi again guys,

You just can´t say that I am the one who´s wrong here without any prove, so this is like a two way road.
I have already contacted him about it and I will keep you updated about this stuff.

If someone finds and article proving this or that, please send it to me at morgan.rafael@gmail.com I would really appreciate it.

It took a long time to develop the Light Drop to the level it is right now.

It´s first idea was conceived during an experimentation class way back in 2003, in my ID school. Since that time, it´s registered as an academic work.
Since I don´t have the resources for it, I can´t take any legal providence about it but I can prove that it is my design with academic documents, teachers and colleagues testimony.

Anyway, i think you are right to expose a different point of view. It´s crucial for a good debate. That´s how justice works!
The important thing here is to keep this post alive for some time and let the time judge who is right or wrong.
Last edited by Rafael Morgan on February 6th, 2008, 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

February 6th, 2008, 3:50 pm

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TaylorWelden
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The most important piece of information you can present for your case would be a website with a documented date, as to when your design was publicly published (not in a private classroom).

I'm more than 100% certain he never has seen any of the work presented to your design school for this project.

I've had several ideas, wrote them down and put them in a file for no one to see... years later these same ideas were made by others. That doesn't mean they stole them from the file in my bedroom. I've had a girlfriend who I shared some of the ideas with, and she brought an article to me from a magazine showing me a design I already designed, even she knew I did it first. My defense; nothing. C'est la vie. That's the way it is.

Human minds are developing at the same pace around the globe, with the same worldly influences surround them.

He may have never heard your name or saw your ideas, and still made the self-inspired idea late in 2006.
Or, he made have had the idea drawn up in a folder since 1998, and finally brought it out for production late in 2006.
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February 6th, 2008, 3:56 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Yeah, I will have to agree with you.

This kind of stuff happens all the time in design world.

Anyway, it would be cool if you could send me this articles about his "version" of this lamp design. It would help a lot to build this case, just in case I ever want to take this further.

Can you e-mail the links to me please?

February 6th, 2008, 4:04 pm

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Scott Bennett
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You've made a very strong accusation (outright theft of intellectual property), without, frankly, a shred of real evidence to support it. At best the two designs are broadly similar- calling either one "theft" of the other is fairly ridiculous.

Going straight to a public forum like this without: 1) first contacting the other party (who is, after all, a fellow designer, not some anonymous Chinese factory), and/or 2) assembling unimpeachable timeline evidence to support your claims; is shameful. Even if you happen to be right that this other person saw your idea and blatantly copied it (which seems highly doubtful), this approach is juvenile and unprofessional. And if you're wrong, and the other guy was first, you deserve to be sued for libel.

February 6th, 2008, 4:13 pm

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Rafael Morgan
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Hey guys, calm down a bit please.

Let´s focus on the discussion.

I am very fair guy and will keep you updated about the whole stuff.

I am not afraid to assume that I am right or not, if this is the case.

That´s why I love democracy and justice.

I just would love to know, assuming that I am right, what legal providences should I take without having to spend thousands of dollars.

This is an important post, this kind of stuff happens all the time.

Let´s keep this post focused, so it can be a nice resource for others in the future.

February 6th, 2008, 4:20 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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Rafael Morgan wrote:Hey guys, calm down a bit please.
Let´s focus on the discussion..
No, Rafael you made this bed. What you don't seem to get is that this is the focus of the discussion. What you did was wrong for every reason I have stated and, more succinctly stated by Scott Bennett.

You can claim all you want that this was an intentional act of theft, but the fact remains that this is NOT the proper channels to be dealing with this in.

Calling someone out for plagerism with no due diligence can be extremely damaging to someone's career. Think what the ramifications would be if my earlier reverse scenario happened? If Mr. Chanet called YOU out for plagerism. Stating dates that preceed yours? What would that do to your career? Your name?

You want the focus to be on the idea that you THINK he stole your idea and are asking us to redirect our attention to that. I don't see that happening now.

February 6th, 2008, 4:34 pm

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suggestions.... I would;

A) quickly apologize.

B) quickly go back and edit and delete all content your posts on this subject, from both this website and the productdesignforums website.

If someone publicly claimed I stole their design, and if I actually did end come up with the idea first, I would take immediate legal action on two accounts; plagiarism and slander.
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