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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 8:27 pm

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warrenginn
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rkuchinsky wrote:
but the key in the business models is that is transparent. I don't pay to access core or the forums, but I get countless benefits for "free". The difference is IDSA asks for money but doesn't give much in return (at least in appearance).
Not to sound like a broken record, but we're trying to address all that. This discussion has been very helpful, but I'm also realistic enough to know that there will always be some who just won't get it or aren't interested. And that's too bad, but there only so much we can do about that.

Thanks again for the feedback,

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 8:46 pm

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rkuchinsky
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warrenginn wrote:
rkuchinsky wrote: 0but I'm also realistic enough to know that there will always be some who just won't get it or aren't interested. And that's too bad, but there only so much we can do about that.

w
So I don't get it..... because I have alternate ideas on how IDSA can work, I just don't get it ????. Wow. seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. maybe I should start my own IDSA.alt.... This is the major issue with IDSA as I see it. Hypocritical and not open to new thought.

I think I've shown here the openness to new idea and changing the model for the better, too bad IDSA reps haven't done as much.

Again, I'm not even an IDSA member or former member maybe even not a potential member but I do represent myself as a design advocate.

R
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 9:00 pm

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warrenginn
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rkuchinsky wrote:
warrenginn wrote: 0but I'm also realistic enough to know that there will always be some who just won't get it or aren't interested. And that's too bad, but there only so much we can do about that.

w
So I don't get it..... because I have alternate ideas on how IDSA can work, I just don't get it ????. Wow. seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. maybe I should start my own IDSA.alt.... This is the major issue with IDSA as I see it. Hypocritical and not open to new thought.

I think I've shown here the openness to new idea and changing the model for the better, too bad IDSA reps haven't done as much.

Again, I'm not even an IDSA member or former member maybe even not a potential member but I do represent myself as a design advocate.

R
Boy, it doesn't take much to get slammed in here, does it?

I'm not referring to you Richard. What makes you think I was directing that comment at you after all your constructive input? Haven't I fully acknowledged that IDSA has a lot to address? Where does all this hostility come from? Good grief...

I'm referring to those who are convinced that IDSA has nothing to offer and seem convinced that there's no point. You've given us a ton of input and the alternative ideas have been great (I wish we could have had that kind of input 5 years ago). But what I'm saying is that I'm okay with the fact that despite every thing we try in the future, we might not be able to satisfy everybody. It's unrealistic to expect IDSA to be everything to everybody.

I wasn't trying to be hypocritical. I hope my posts here at least demonstrate that.

I hope that's okay with you...

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 9:19 pm

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rkuchinsky
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warrenginn wrote:
rkuchinsky wrote:
warrenginn wrote: 0but I'm also realistic enough to know that there will always be some who just won't get it or aren't interested. And that's too bad, but there only so much we can do about that.

w
So I don't get it..... because I have alternate ideas on how IDSA can work, I just don't get it ????. Wow. seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. maybe I should start my own IDSA.alt.... This is the major issue with IDSA as I see it. Hypocritical and not open to new thought.

I think I've shown here the openness to new idea and changing the model for the better, too bad IDSA reps haven't done as much.

Again, I'm not even an IDSA member or former member maybe even not a potential member but I do represent myself as a design advocate.

R
Boy, it doesn't take much to get slammed in here, does it?

I'm not referring to you Richard. What makes you think I was directing that comment at you after all your constructive input? Haven't I fully acknowledged that IDSA has a lot to address? Where does all this hostility come from? Good grief...

I'm referring to those who are convinced that IDSA has nothing to offer and seem convinced that there's no point. You've given us a ton of input and the alternative ideas have been great (I wish we could have had that kind of input 5 years ago). But what I'm saying is that I'm okay with the fact that despite every thing we try in the future, we might not be able to satisfy everybody. It's unrealistic to expect IDSA to be everything to everybody.

I wasn't trying to be hypocritical. I hope my posts here at least demonstrate that.

I hope that's okay with you...

w
sorry if anything I wrote came off as personal or an attack. honestly it wasn't meant to be that. I respect your post and other IDSA members posting here, was just trying to stem the feeling that seems to be perpetuated of "what do you have to add to IDSA?" that seems a bit common in some comments that I don't think is constructive. Sorry if it became more argumentative than need be.

R
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 9:28 pm

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warrenginn
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rkuchinsky wrote: Sorry if it became more argumentative than need be.
No worries. I think all of this dialog is great.

The challenge will be to figure out how to implement these ideas cost-effectively... A grassroots approach is fine, but it can take a lot of time and people want to see results ASAP. All of us volunteers have jobs too, you know...

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 10:05 pm

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Greenman
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rkuchinsky wrote:I agree, giving content for IDSA to make money on (either directly selling it or indirectly via memberships) doesn't sounds like a very good deal to me.

Perhaps it could flipped around. People already generate tons of content through blogs, books (like Yo's for example), courses (I've done a few for example that I could see being of value to others)...maybe what could work is if IDSA partnered with something like Blurb.com or Lulu.com and then authors could have their work published, under an IDSA "label", still own the content, and receive a major portion of the revenue. IDSA would get a small bit, but more importantly IDSA would be "distributing" the content and have their name attached to good stuff. The content would be available to both members and non-members, and perhaps even a special discount could apply to members (though I think it is better to be equally priced for all). IDSA needs to forget about the quick cashgrab (ie. I saw those case studies on Catalyst still cost $$), and concentrate more on being the go to place for good design content. Revenue can come later or in different ways, but fundamental information and useful publications should be accessible for all, otherwise people will just go elsewhere.

Think of how many design books are published every year independently or from publishing houses like Taschen and Phaidon. IDSA could be OWNING this market if they use their brand to aggregate all kinds of stuff and put their stamp of approval on it!

Think about it - an easy stream for example for good value and revenue could even be to create the ultimate portfolio printing service! Or how about publishing a final year's school exhibition in print or online. If IDSA was the goto source for things like this, every student would know about IDSA and have an easy entry...

In fact, just thinking about this kind of stuff (I'm making it up as I type) is actually very exciting. There are so many possibilities. Perhaps the next IDSA conference should just be a design charette about what the organization could/should be. I'd bet with 50-100 designers in one room for one day (with a few beers) the results would be amazing! It could even be a virtual conversation like this is.

R
R, i've been following this discussion pretty closely and I like where' your head's at with this idea, it's one of the few comments made that I got excited about. FYI, Blurb does allow you to use your own logo or seal on it's products for a small up-charge. This would be the easy part, striking deals on discounts and such would take more negotiations and might not go anywhere, but IDSA could place the orders or stock the goods and turn the discounts that way.

Around this time last year I put together an International Design Portfolio through Blurb for our organization highlighting all the great work coming out of our team. We then set up a Blurb account and we stock the portfolios for sale to our sales representatives and designers. It's low tech, but print is certainly not dead, it has been quite the success and has helped our sales force to engage in higher level design discussions with their clients while showcasing the design capability of our team.

Also, I brought this portfolio last year to the Midwest IDSA conference here in Minneapolis and spent a lot of time with students and showing them the book. I recommended that quite a few of them could use Blurb for their own portfolio and have a nice, professional looking piece to share with potential employers at a great price. So, given the IDSA student portfolio reviews this could arm the organization with some ammo to go in and negotiate with a company like Blurb by offering to recommend their services to students looking to have their portfolios printed. I also recommended to some students that while they could have their interview portfolios printed they could also have mini-folios printed as mailers as well. Also consider that IDSA can set up their own bookstore through Blurb and young designers that so choose to can have the IDSA stamp and could offer their portfolios through this store and make a little money back from the organization.

As to the concerns about proprietary boardroom design presentations not available for legal reasons, well, couldn't the IDSA still tap these individuals to assemble a general high level design deck to arm design directors with a piece to emphasize the importance of design within an organization? Articles in publications like Fast Company help in these efforts, but imagine an IDSA sanctioned annual volume solely dedicated to this end, that could be a pretty powerful tool, gain IDSA notoriety, and help members and non-members alike.
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 10:14 pm

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Greenman
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Oh, and also you could invite a representative from Blurb to speak at some IDSA conferences to speak about their business model and invite students and professionals alike to use their services
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 10:51 pm

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Warren

R brings up a great point regarding education. What is IDSA's involvement with pre-college education? I know myself that I had no idea what ID was before I went off to college. I new that Art and Drafting Class were my favorite classes, but i never new that I could make a living by combining the two styles of thinking. I went to art school originally to study Illustration or Graphic Design and that is where I found ID. I feel that if IDSA could get in to High Schools of even Middle Schools (free of charge) we could teach these kids what ID is and spark that passion early. I also think by doing this younger aspiring designer will have exposer to IDSA and if done right and you show value will stick with it through college and hopefully their professional career.

We have many high school students come on Core and ask for advice. We have seen many improve and even followed them into their college years. A great example of this is Designfabulous. I would suggest looking him up to see what the potential is by fostering designer at a young age.
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 11:35 pm

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warrenginn
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Greenman wrote:Oh, and also you could invite a representative from Blurb to speak at some IDSA conferences to speak about their business model and invite students and professionals alike to use their services
All great ideas... keep 'em coming.

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 11:41 pm

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Hi, this is Ravi and I would like to answer your question and comment about the way Catalyst is run; the old vs. the new. While its true the jurors both of IDEA and Catalyst are now permitted to submit their own work by recusing themselves, in the case of Whirlpool and OXO, they were neither submitted by nor judged by either of those panelists. Catalyst is a completely new way of looking at the profession and in doing so, it encourages anyone and everyone to nominate best practices stories that they feel will serve to elevate the profession in the eyes of our community, consumers and patrons. It cost zero to enter your nomination, takes only a few minutes and is done completely on line.

Next, I am happy to address the panelist selection. As with IDEA, and its head juror, in the case of Catalyst I am charged with maintaining a very high caliber of esteemed professionals from both within and outside the profession. For this reason, you see a diversification of academics, business and design leaders and journalists. In bringing together such a team of highly sought after experts, we needed a way to get them all together on line. So, we created an on line system by which nominations are short listed and then debated, ultimately coming to those stories that will define the profession. This too is a new way of doing things for IDSA.

This is a very important program to not just the IDSA, or its panelists. But, its important to all of us associated with the profession at what I see as a pivotal time. The old way of doing things has given way to those dedicated to raising the perceived value of the contributions Industrial Designers have made and make to business, society and government. Its an amazing time to be an Industrial Designer and I thrilled to be able to do my part in leading this initiative that many see as how we will define our voice and build our brand to a higher level than ever seen before.

I welcome your feedback. If you have a better way of getting this monumental task accomplished, I’m the first to listen and make improvements going forward. Catalyst has just started to walk and we can use feedback and encouragement as we teach it to run. I for one am very proud of how IDSA has encouraged us to take the reins and make things happen. Catalyst is not perfect but it also not bogged down with committee decisions nor indecision; its moving forward. I encourage all to take the time to read the case studies. I hope you’ll like them. They’re available on MP3 as well if you’d like to listen to them instead of read them.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 11:42 pm

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PackageID wrote:Warren

R brings up a great point regarding education. What is IDSA's involvement with pre-college education? I know myself that I had no idea what ID was before I went off to college. I new that Art and Drafting Class were my favorite classes, but i never new that I could make a living by combining the two styles of thinking. I went to art school originally to study Illustration or Graphic Design and that is where I found ID. I feel that if IDSA could get in to High Schools of even Middle Schools (free of charge) we could teach these kids what ID is and spark that passion early. I also think by doing this younger aspiring designer will have exposure to IDSA and if done right and you show value will stick with it through college and hopefully their professional career.

We have many high school students come on Core and ask for advice. We have seen many improve and even followed them into their college years. A great example of this is Designfabulous. I would suggest looking him up to see what the potential is by fostering designer at a young age.
Yes, we have been talking about that kind of outreach. I'm one of those who knew nothing about design until I happened across a design course for non-majors in college (I was in Physics but wasn't digging it that much). It would have made a big difference to me had I known about it earlier.

I know some of the design schools do some outreach in their local areas (as a recruitment tool, natch). But I think IDSA could generate materials that would help them tell that story more effectively.

Good suggestion.

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 10th, 2010, 11:49 pm

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ravi sawhney wrote: I welcome your feedback. If you have a better way of getting this monumental task accomplished, I’m the first to listen and make improvements going forward. Catalyst has just started to walk and we can use feedback and encouragement as we teach it to run. I for one am very proud of how IDSA has encouraged us to take the reins and make things happen. Catalyst is not perfect but it also not bogged down with committee decisions nor indecision; its moving forward. I encourage all to take the time to read the case studies. I hope you’ll like them. They’re available on MP3 as well if you’d like to listen to them instead of read them.
Thanks for the clarification, Ravi.

Guys, if you want to discuss the Catalyst program further, I can split this thread so you can have a topic dedicated to the subject. Just let me know.

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 11th, 2010, 12:10 am

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I see a little lock in this topic's near future as we get closer to 12 pages.

IDSA could learn a lot from core77/coroflot and also other organizations like AIGA which is a really great professional design organization.

To me, IDSA has always seemed a little out of reach to it's members (paying members at that) where a free site like core is great because of how accessible it is. This forum is a prime example of that. If I go to the IDSA site right now there is very little that makes me want to stay there, or go back. In fact, I have not even looked at IDSA.org in a long time until this topic came up. And isn't it interesting how very little IDSA even comes up on these boards? You're more likely to find a Alias vs. Solidworks debate. I would love to see a strong collaboration between core77 and IDSA.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 11th, 2010, 12:21 am

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mrtwills wrote:I see a little lock in this topic's near future as we get closer to 12 pages.

IDSA could learn a lot from core77/coroflot and also other organizations like AIGA which is a really great professional design organization.

To me, IDSA has always seemed a little out of reach to it's members (paying members at that) where a free site like core is great because of how accessible it is. This forum is a prime example of that. If I go to the IDSA site right now there is very little that makes me want to stay there, or go back. In fact, I have not even looked at IDSA.org in a long time until this topic came up. And isn't it interesting how very little IDSA even comes up on these boards? You're more likely to find a Alias vs. Solidworks debate. I would love to see a strong collaboration between core77 and IDSA.
First, don't judge IDSA based on the site we currently have up. It's just a placeholder and there's something much better on they way... Seriously... No, really.

There's no denying what Core has done and it wouldn't make sense to try to complete with it or duplicate it. But IDSA does have a need for its own location on the web for several reasons. One is to communicate what, exactly, we are doing for our members, events, etc. Another will be to provide a more fluid mechanism for those of us who are leaders within IDSA to communicate and organize ourselves. I don't think any one single website is supposed to be all things to all people anayway. But a complimentary relationship with Core77, definitely.

Yes, we are looking a quite a few organizations like AIGA to see what works and what doesn't.

Yes, I considered splitting a part of this off into a new topic, but decided to let it ride for now as long as it remains constructive.

Thanks,

w
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

March 11th, 2010, 12:38 am

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I'm not trying to trash the IDSA because it would behoove us all in the industry to have a strong central organization for our profession. I certainly don't think Core77 is all things to all people but it's a good medium for IDers and a huge part of it's strength is through user generated content like coroflot and these forums. Right now, IDSA does not seem to have a place for member contribution and quite honestly I think that should be priority #1 for a professional organization. I certainly understand the challenge IDSA faces however and it's easy to sit her and write all the things it should be and then do nothing myself. I'm looking forward to the new site, I hope the little kid font goes away.
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