Flocking outsole process

sorry for the late reply i was out of town.

reason why we need the flocking is because it lowers the duty of the shoe. i don’t want to go into duty issues but basically when the upper is mainly fabric the duty is very high (38% more or less) but if you have a fabric/flocked outsole then the shoe is apparently considered a slipper/house shoe and therefore the duty drops immediately to around 10%.

converse has great examples of sneakers with all fabric upper and rubber outsole with flocking! the area where they did the flocking on the rubber outsole looks as if the rubber has been scratched whereas its actual little fibers attached.

we’re doing several dress shoes with fabric uppers and rubber outsoles so we really need this flocking to work for us otherwise my boss might drop the styles cos he doesn’t want to pay the high duty!

i think Supernaut was right about it probably being electrostatically applied…that’s how we apply metallic finishes on ABS heels and TPUs.

yesterday i was thinking that maybe the easiest way is to roll some glue over the embossed area of the outsole and then just sprinkle some of the fibers on and where the glue is thats where it will stick…but i was too embarassed to email that suggestion to China. I’m going to try suggesting the electrostatic way to them.

is it really a slipper or a real shoe?

i would think that if you did have a flocked outsole it wouldnt be very good to wear outside. as well, the consumer sales would likely be not so good as most people would think it is a slipper. no?

got any pics of those converse ones?

R

This is the only photo i can find, its not that goo because zooming in you can’t see the details.
If you get a chance go see one in real life…in the end i might be getting this all wrong and this may not even be flocking :unamused:

The flocking is so minumul that it probably wears off the very day you wear the shoes and there is rubber underneath so it should have no effect on the normal wear.

The shoes we are working on are real dress high heel women’s shoes, no customer would refuse to buy them just because they have a little flocking on the outsole…most customers won’t even know what it is.

It’s only for duty reasons as in their books it gets classified differently with the flocking and so has lower duty.

How you then sell the shoe and what the final customer does with it is none of their business.

I remember those…

since the rubber pods are separate parts from the flocked area they should be able to do it pretty easily (or out source it)… you definitely want flocking vs a fabric wrap…

hello Jelena

i am probably wrong but it seems this outsole is featuring this kind of fiber woven or non woven we currently see in the rope factories. or in carpet factories as well.

fibers such as polyamide … the kind of fibers we see in the french company called charentaise.

I would suppose Converse to really care about abrasion issues for their tooling (cycles tests etc…)

refering to messages above and the different technics of flocking, I feel pretty concerned about implementing this kind of material on outsole due to friction and poor resistance

scratched flocking create burning traces and may be definately slippy in an hour time, even faster if your shoes are meant to appear on the carpet of a cat walk .

the more i review your picture and the more I think about the combination between that harsh, polyamid or canabis fiber co molded with the rubber as per a moldable base.

the color dam between the two area seem to confirm my thoughts.

thank u for the picture,

hoping it helps

I am familiar with those also. In fact I may know of the factory that did them (if that particular style is Chinese made)

What they do apparently is electrostatically flock a substrate, die cut it and then bond it to the outsole as opposed to sprinkling fibers onto rubber. They score the rubber(or schive it etc) to enable a greater bonding area for the substrate as the flocking is actually stronger than the bonding to rubber. Then as they vulcanize it and cook the shoe the substrate melts into the roughed up rubber and bonds the fibers to the outsole.

A variation of this was used on felted outsole waders and rubber boots for a certain outdoor company whose name escapes me at a factory in Guangdong. It enabled them to controll the flocking and ensure exact depth and direction of the flocked fibers.

A way to check if you have the original: cut the outsole and if you can see a clear definition between the flocking and rubber (or can peel it away) its just bonded, if you cannot differentiate between the outsole and rubber or if its not evenly dirtibuted its been bonded and then cooked.

If you are looking for a lower duty your factory may be better off just flocking an inexpensive substrate (PU sheet or god forbid PVC) and bonding it directly to the outsole.

But then again I could be way off the mark… :blush:

wow, some great experience and comments in this thread!

my question would be back to your original purpose of flocking. are you sure the customs and duty people will be fooled by your flocking an outdoor shoe change tariff categories? in my experience, they are usually pretty quick to pick up on tricks and loopholes like this and you could even get penalties. As well, i’d also double check the category (i dont have my duty book around here), but i would think there may be some other requirement to count as a house slipper like lasting type perhaps or price, or upper material, etc.

just would hate for you to go all through this with your fty and then nailed by customs. good thinking though to try to get around those pesky duty issues! thats the kinda creativity i like to see!

cheers,

R

My company makes these type of outsoles on some of our shoes for the discount market. This is an “innovation” that is driven by avoiding import duties. There may be some real benefit though, as many aquasock and trail shoes have been using felt pads on the soleplates for traction on wet stone. The felt stuff seems much more substantial than the embedded fabric, so I think it must be a different process. Though I don’t have any personal experience with the fabric on soles, I asked around a bit.
To be considered a slipper, 51% or more of the SURFACE CONTACT AREA of the sole must have embedded fabric. The fabric area can have some relief, but anything more than 1mm deep is not counted as surface contact. There is also a test that is done to determine acceptable traction (I’m not certain whether this is done by customs to get a binding ruling or to meet the QC standards set by the customer). This is often remedied by having holes in the fabric portion, through which bare tread can protrude. Its tricky to balance the actual tread with the surface contact fabric.
Es originals apparently uses fabric embedded outsoles as well, and their method is off-limits to us. perhaps they have a patent, I don’t know.
Anyway, I’ll see if I can get a 100% airtight legal definition for you.

Hi Jelena
I’m surprised that China is having a problem with your “flocking” request. Which… by the way… usually isn’t used with athletic shoes (except with your Converse example). It’s used on the outsole of womens & childrens shoes (usually 51%) to keep the duty rates down.

A FABRIC outsole is patented; and this method is injected and does not adher to PU. So I’m sure this is not the method you are looking for.

What you are probably looking for is simply a flocked outsole; which does NOT have a patent, DOES adher to PU and is simply sprayed-on felt.

Next time any of you are in a Payless, Target, etc. look at the womens dress shoes (flats or heels) and you should see plenty of flocked outsoles.

amazing that actually works for getting around the duty… crazy.

Tell me about it. When you deal with first cost and landed; you learn all the cheap-0 secrets of the trade…gotta keep the cost down! :stuck_out_tongue:

anyone got any other great tricks for beating duty?

here in europe with the new anti-dumping legislations adding 19.5% to non-technical leather shoes from china, its a big problem for the industry… would be great to hear about more workarounds.

R

I had these workarounds employed in the past:

form the ingenous:
Bond a dual material insole EVA with PU insert to the strobel or fiber board inside the shoe. If it cannot be removed its considered a integral part of the shoe and presto…technical product.

to the simple modification of exiting parts:
die cut holes in the foams used in the collar and tongue. You now have “Lenticular Technical Foam” or use Ovalized laces instead of flat, or adding a TPU/TPR shank to the outsole.

to the whole solution looking for a problem:
“Design around duty” of adding a unique feature that really won’t be used but is different enough to make it technical.

and finally China’s first answer to your question:
instead of using full grain leather use a PU coated textile or PU coated leather on 51% of the upper. I hear they have fantastic embossed PUs that look and act like leather…:unamused:

neat tips supernaut!

i actually heard another one the other day from the factory workers; something like: if there is a zipper on the boot shaft it is low duty, even if the upper is over 51% fabric and there is a rubber outsole.

oh and by the way if any one was wondering…we finally managed to get the flocking on the outsole to look good!

can you post some pics of the application? I am very curious to see how all this discussion about flocking looks in real life.

R

Kind of like this:

OK bad joke… what the Flock? Seriously I’m done now… <<<< Sorry!

here’s a close up pic.

i ended up having to go for the all-over flocking because apparently it’s the touching surface that has to be 51% or over flocked.

the printed logo on it came out shitty, we’re still trying to figure out a way to get it nice and crisp.

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Well played Trebeck…

now get the flock outta here and get back to work…:blush:

jelena;

deboss the logo and screen over it?