Christmas Tree Guilt

December 10th, 2007, 12:45 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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I have Christmas Tree guilt.

Should I?

More verbose explanation of my thoughts here: http://www.aialone.com/pivot/entry.php?id=512

December 10th, 2007, 1:16 pm

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molested_cow
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Christmas isn't a part of my culture. I don't celebrate it. I don't put up christmas tree or participate in the consumerism craze, but am I necessarily greener than you? I don't know, because there are other events in my culture , which you don't practice, that can be just as wasteful.

So I say enjoy it the greenest way you can :D
It's not the cows' fault, stop molesting them!!!

December 10th, 2007, 1:35 pm

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melovescookies
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That tree ( farm grown and all) will probably have less of an impact on the environment than meat dishes you’re going to eat with your family during winter holidays. Organically grown Christmas tree is still a waste, but if you put things in perspective…if you eat beef, or exotic fruits, that xmas tree is kind of nothing. And it brings joy to your family.

i got my first xmas tree this year, it's a tiny one from a farm nearby, but i am all about supporting local businesses.
i was considering fake tree, but since i move so much and my urge to partake in xmas is not annual, storing and moving a tree made no sense in my situation.

December 10th, 2007, 1:58 pm

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Bbarn
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I was actually thinking about this the other day but in a different light....gifts.

I wouldn't be too concerned with the tree, BUT what about the presents? How much paper does your family go through wrapping all those gifts?

December 10th, 2007, 2:32 pm

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molested_cow
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melovescookies wrote:That tree ( farm grown and all) will probably have less of an impact on the environment than meat dishes you’re going to eat with your family during winter holidays. Organically grown Christmas tree is still a waste, but if you put things in perspective…if you eat beef, or exotic fruits, that xmas tree is kind of nothing. And it brings joy to your family.

i got my first xmas tree this year, it's a tiny one from a farm nearby, but i am all about supporting local businesses.
i was considering fake tree, but since i move so much and my urge to partake in xmas is not annual, storing and moving a tree made no sense in my situation.

Firstly, what's sup with the beef? Can you explain?

Also, are you saying that people in Florida shouldn't celebrate Christmas with a real christmas tree? They should just get a projector and project real time Christmas tree images from up north on the wall, then release the tree scent to simulate the atmosphere, and blast the house with christmas chimes.

Or, just litter the house with BestBuy gift cards...sorry I am not making any sense here.
It's not the cows' fault, stop molesting them!!!

December 10th, 2007, 3:22 pm

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melovescookies
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molested_cow wrote:
melovescookies wrote:That tree ( farm grown and all) will probably have less of an impact on the environment than meat dishes you’re going to eat with your family during winter holidays. Organically grown Christmas tree is still a waste, but if you put things in perspective…if you eat beef, or exotic fruits, that xmas tree is kind of nothing. And it brings joy to your family.

i got my first xmas tree this year, it's a tiny one from a farm nearby, but i am all about supporting local businesses.
i was considering fake tree, but since i move so much and my urge to partake in xmas is not annual, storing and moving a tree made no sense in my situation.

Firstly, what's sup with the beef? Can you explain?

Also, are you saying that people in Florida shouldn't celebrate Christmas with a real christmas tree? They should just get a projector and project real time Christmas tree images from up north on the wall, then release the tree scent to simulate the atmosphere, and blast the house with christmas chimes.

Or, just litter the house with BestBuy gift cards...sorry I am not making any sense here.
i am not sure what the question about florida and best buy gift cards was all about.

pines/ evergreens grow all around the usa, btw.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/TOPIC_Common_Pines_of_Florida

http://www.flchristmastrees.com/


but about the beef, the resources that go into raising meat are pretty significant. with a tree, grown on a farm, the only resources you use is trucking that tree to a selling point, plus maybe watering it? maybe some chemicals to fertilize the soil/kill pests.
think about what you need to raise a cow, how many pounds of meat one eats in a week, how many parts of that cow are actually consumed, how much did that cow eat during its life time, and the resources that went into growing food for that cow.

a bit veg. crazy sounding, but you asked:
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html

December 10th, 2007, 5:35 pm

Clyde
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If I cut the top 6 ft off a 20 ft Fraser fir in my neighbor's backyard, will it still live? It seems like a good compromise.

December 10th, 2007, 5:52 pm

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Thanks for helping me squelch my Green Guilt over my family Christmas Tree....now I feel guilty for being hungry.

Stupid stomach.

December 10th, 2007, 6:02 pm

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I know how you feel IP and bbarn. I have to say, I'm against presents (call me the scrooge). I was telling my wife this year, "don't buy me anything. I have everything I want". and it's true. My wife just keeps calling me cheap now. My financial happiness is ruining my marriage *cries*. hehe

I'm against trees too, being an atheist. We bought one this year because we are having company and I don't want to be perceived by people as a scrooge (on than on internet forums).

I completely agree with melovescookies, beef is horrible. I'm slowly convincing my wife to give up beef, and we are cooking more and more vegetarian dishes. Long live the bean, imho.

December 10th, 2007, 8:20 pm

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I think the answer hinges on whether you intend to live in a sustainable fashion, while still living your life, or if you think you are the enemy of the earth and that some sort of artificially intelligent robot ought to cure the earth of its disease...

I retired my gas guzzler car, refuse plastic bags for single items and impose cloth diapers on my child, but I still enjoy new products, an occasional steak and the live christmas tree will need to be pryed from my cold, sap encrusted dead hands

December 10th, 2007, 8:48 pm

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molested_cow
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melovescookies wrote:

but about the beef, the resources that go into raising meat are pretty significant. with a tree, grown on a farm, the only resources you use is trucking that tree to a selling point, plus maybe watering it? maybe some chemicals to fertilize the soil/kill pests.
think about what you need to raise a cow, how many pounds of meat one eats in a week, how many parts of that cow are actually consumed, how much did that cow eat during its life time, and the resources that went into growing food for that cow.

a bit veg. crazy sounding, but you asked:
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html

Arh that tree and bestbuy part was ... I don't know where I was going. I guess I was talking about the balance between the meaning of a festival VS rationalizing everything down to the molecule.

Anyways, you want to hear why I use the user name m_cow?

Well, this is exactly why. People look at numbers and get all edgy. "OMG eating beef is bad" "OMG cows pass too much green house gases!!!"

It's not the cow's fault! Look at how people raise lifestocks hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Then compare it to how they raise them now... wait, that's not the point.

Look at how consumers are demanding their food today! Speed, performance, quantity, convenience.... you name it. Food suppliers need to satisfy the demand, therefore do what it takes to bring us our convenient beef at when or wherever we want. Before you know it, everything we eat becomes mass produced, from groceries to Big Macs to your "gourmet" restaurants. Stop eating beef will not solve the problem, but will upset the balance.

What we need to do is to demand good beef. Beef from cows that grow up listening to classical musics. If the Japanese can do it, why can't the rest of the world? Again, it's about the consciousness of the consumer, and we as designers can help to cultivate that.


Oh BTW, maybe you should learn to eat like Chinese. We don't waste a single part of the animal, from the brain to the eye balls(high in protein) to the bones, tail, tongue etc, then we give whatever's left to dogs and pigs.

The next time you go to the grocery store, take a look at how much pineapples have been wasted just because the consumers want their pineapples to be perfectly cut( OMG Pineapples are horrible!!), sitting nicely and uniformly in a can or plastic container. Learn how to slice a pineapple!!! :oops:
It's not the cows' fault, stop molesting them!!!

December 11th, 2007, 10:35 am

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melovescookies
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so do Russians, they eat every part of the animal. so do Uzbeks. i've been there, done that, ate my share of eyeballs and tails. right now i don't eat meat at all, and am content about it. so?

The reason I stopped eating meat in the first place was because I was disgusted with the way meat was consumed in the USA.

i think you're making too many assumptions right now about people posting in this thread based on whatever experience you’ve had irl.

December 11th, 2007, 12:12 pm

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jon_winebrenner
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molested_cow wrote:from the brain ... then we give whatever's left to dogs and pigs.
Isn't this, effectively, what leads to mad cow disease?

PS: That's not a judgement...just a question.

December 11th, 2007, 12:33 pm

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I agree, thats how diseases get started...whether cooked or not.

Stick a plate of cow eyes out in a butcher shop and see how fast they fly (or roll) off the shelf. Whether healthy or not, no one is going to buy them so its not worth the effort to save them.

I am going to be very "green" during Christmas...... A huge green Christmas tree, a big green wreath on the door, and lots of green garland decorating the mantle.

December 11th, 2007, 1:29 pm

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ip_wirelessly wrote:
molested_cow wrote:from the brain ... then we give whatever's left to dogs and pigs.
Isn't this, effectively, what leads to mad cow disease?

PS: That's not a judgement...just a question.
Mad cow disease are found in brains and bones and such, however they it didn't start in Asia.

Recently Taiwan decided to reopen it's import of beef from USA even though it's not exactly safe yet. Why? People say it's political pressure. I don't know.

Again, there are quality meat around that isn't treated the way most others are, so you can't really reject meat simply because of one assumption. You do have to pay more for the quality, but that's also exactly why we are where we are today.

So in terms of assumptions, I don't know if I have any more assumptions than you(melovescookies) do.
It's not the cows' fault, stop molesting them!!!
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