would someone please put Product back into Design

talk to me when you have been in the buisness for 10 years, got some products to market, when you have dealt with investors, untill then your just “dreaming”.

I may not have been in buisness for 10 years but I already own my own patents and am currently in development of 2 of my own products with substancial investments from third parties, so I’ve got to admit that i’m not “dreaming”. I have worked in a variety of business across the world and have come across the same people all demoralised by their unablity to generate change. BUT at the same time I have also seen people pushing the boundries of what is possible, so tell me if companies weren’t bothered in forward dream thinking and generating tommorows products then why in the last company I worked in, A market leader in self service, that their biggest design investment is in advanced development looking into future technogies and designs.

I may only be 21, but I understand a great deal and yes I have worked on products from concept to manufacture for major international brands.

Product/industrial design isn’t based on solely what the product looks like its more complicated, its about undertanding enviroments, interactions, experiences, profitablity, usability and services. When you relate back to different art movements they mainly relate to aesthetic not future design. Art movements are the talk of marketing deparments. designers should design on a case by case basis and generate concepts best suited for the task they are to perform.

The reason we have iconic brands is that there are some people out their who understand that todays dreams are tommorows reality. you can;t desing for the future if you constrain yourself to todays manufacturing techniques and technogies.

Cholden: I agree. We are talking about different things. Product design is making big steps forward in terms of the nuts & bolts stuff. Ergonomics, usability, mechanics, manufacturing processes, researching context, etc. That side of the business I have no concern for. In fact, those are the real growth areas in my opinion…that’s why I try to learn and push myself to play in those domains.

However, I’m still a designer. I still draw and love to look at beautiful things. It’s the art side of design.

because as I stated our “tastes” havent really changed, sorta encoded in out dna but our ability to demand/aquire what ever we desire has changed.

Zippy: Not sure if I follow. Do you mean the basic things that we are attracted to haven’t changed? Symmetry, proportion, etc?

You just made me think back to those early plastic chairs. Isn’t it weird that when plastic molding was being developed, a technology that literally has unlimited forming ability, the first designs were square and simple? Why didn’t they do rococo designs with intricate floral decoration? It probably would have been popular at least…

does anyone else see the irony in this thread?

Yeah, sort of…

Cholden, whether or not you derive inspiration from the arts is less relevant that the fact that if we were to make a generalization about design, the art world influences design. You seem like a smart guy and you are well aware that no one is implying that art influences the engineered aspects of a product, or that art impacts the ergonomic properties, or even that what is happening in the art world trumps the clients wishes. Everything really has been done, this isn’t some new profound realization, it has. What is important is how visual language is re appropriated and the relationships between the new presentations and old connotations.

What I think is ironic is that just like in the art world, the arbiters of good design work are also the ones executing it. The users are subject not only to what we call good design, but also what we present to them, which, ironically isn’t always what we say good design is. So when you design something you think is sub par, its like lying.

“Product/industrial design isn’t based on solely what the product looks like its more complicated, its about undertanding enviroments, interactions, experiences, profitablity, usability and services. When you relate back to different art movements they mainly relate to aesthetic not future design. Art movements are the talk of marketing deparments. designers should design on a case by case basis and generate concepts best suited for the task they are to perform”…well that part kid you got spot on, hope for you yet. In sum your just at the start, and its great your working on a product or 2 (patents btw dont mean dick all unless you have the $$$ to defend them, i know i got 14 utlity patents). Substansial investment, ok guess your talking about 1-5 mill there because any less is just play money and wont get you to production or market in any real sense. At 21 we all know EVERYTHING, kinda like the bunny hiding behind the bush, not knowing or caring that its ass is hanging out in the breese for all to see.

Ya 9 form, symmerty, proportion, think of it like this a pretty girl is a pretty girl (with wiggle room for cultural shift) at any time…basic as that.

Good design (like art) is in the eye of the beholder, in consumer products eveybody gets a vote not just a few “toadies” whom mandate that X-Y or Z is ART.

yes, ze goggles, zey do nozthing!

I had started to post a long commentary on this thread, but really just think about this. The availability of content via the web has increased huge with the proliferation of high speed and “Web 2.0” (bleh). Consider what all of it has done for the life cycle of trends and ponder whether or not we’re at a point where trends can’t be set and we must turn to a new type of commodity, an experience based one.

At 21 we all know EVERYTHING, kinda like the bunny hiding behind the bush, not knowing or caring that its ass is hanging out in the breese for all to see.

I never implied that I knew everything, and thats why I am in the design industry. I guess like all designers I’m looking to get as close to to perfection with out being perfect, and aiming to close the loop in every design I start. I have to say if i get to 80 and know 1% of how the world works I would be content. But to maybe push for the best in the future we have to live thinking that tomorrows the last day of our lives, which may mean we have our ass out in the breeze, but with the hope that it looks good when its hanging out there and if it does get stung we make the sting look even better.

for me the differnece with design and art is that art looks pretty and nice but when it comes to it theres nothering there a part form what you see, on the opposite side there is engineering, a giant push for perfect function with a disregard for aesthics and beauty. AND yes sometimes there are happy accidents where arts extremely beautiful and functional and engineerings extremely functional and beautiful but where design goes is slap bang in the centre trying to take the best from both worlds and combine them and taking into account other areas as well like phycology and envirtoments, passion and emotions, business and sustanability etc and produce the perfect balance. Its that perfect balance that makes good design and untill now only a few have got close.

The problem with using art and media as a stimulant for innovations is that you can end up living somebody else life and get to concerned with whats happening everywhere else. As designers we should have a little bit of skill from every area and in times of need have the ability to talk to specialists in the needed area to help with the problems we face but not rely on them.






Think I might have dissertation topic from this.lol

well after all this blather, it seem you do have your head on straight. Stick to real work, dissertations are just for lint pickers and bottle washers, dont talk about it do it, dont render it model it, dont guess research and in the end ask the end user their opinion…but dont take it as gospel.

I have to disagree with you on this one. Design, like Art is a clique field. you are either in or out. Look at pop art, or go to any contemporary art museum. Follow someone who isn’t “in” around for a bit and see what they think of what we have decided is worthy of praise. The phrase “my 5 year old could have done that” comes to mind.

Art is about more that aesthetics, you sound like one of those engineers that says designers just make things pretty.

And you are quite aware that you cannot discount everyone just because they don’t have all the experience you do.

Its eye of the beholder, you said it yourself “Follow someone who isn’t “in” around for a bit and see what they think of what we have decided is worthy of praise.” I am a designer, engineer, entrenpenure, inventor and can tango, so my views are temperd by having a full spectrum of abilties, talents and education a broader spectrum if you will. Remember old leo not only could draw his bronze horse, but sell it to a investor, design the furnace and invent the casting process.

Hundreds of years ago, European royalty would ride through the countryside with the curtains of their coaches closed, and complain about how the stars aren’t organized in the sky. It took the artist selling paintings of the countryside in the city to make them realize the beauty that was there.

In 50 years, people will drop jelly on their floor and say, “I should go get my camera, this is beautiful…it’s just like a Jackson Pollock!”

In 50 years!!! crap like that is on utube NOW. :laughing:

The beholders who decide they can drop jelly on the floor don’t organize exhibitions, write text books or edit design mag’s, those are the domain of designers, artists, and academics. These are the people who decide what “good design” is and feed it to the rest of the world. Marketing just takes those cues because they think they can sell something.

never ever ever discout marketing, or production engineering or accounting…EVER.

never discount someone with less experience and more drive to build an empire

lol

its the smart bet to discount them, 80% of all buisness fail in the first 2 years…no you would not get my money because buisness (and empires) are about managment.

Nicely spun, does the figure apply only the the young folk, or is failure trans generational in this case?

across the board, however younguns seem to take the dive much more rashly that older folk…i know i did in my 20’s and 30’s…then wised up and LEARNED A THING OR 3