“we are better able capitalize/ realize on good ideas from the past”
hold that thought 
Some interesting thoughts in here!
Retro: retro what? I think this term is used to widely and we should perhaps re-examine where we use it. For example, I thought the original iMac was inspired by modernism because it attempted to strip away the decoration of the enclosure and celebrate the functional components inside. Is it retro though? The newest iMac is closer to '80’s modernism. Very cubic. Is that retro?
DIY: I think this is being overhyped. We are all creative people, in other words, we are biased. If people were so concerned about the products they buy, wouldn’t they do more research and buy a well designed one from the get go? If they don’t care that much to pay more, why would they spend lots of time painting, cuting, welding and screwing a home brewed design together?
This is not to say that personalizing won’t grow. I think an over arching trend of the last half of the 20th century is reduced costs of manufacturing heading towards such small cost as to be insignificant (some of this was offset by legal and government interference requiring most costly manufacturing for safety or environmental reasons). This reduction in cost is due partly to “outsourcing” to the developing world, but advances in rapid prototyping, CAD/CAM, robotics and nano/bio technologies will help continue the trend. Due to reduced costs, it will be possible to modify products for individuals. Perhaps in logos, colours and printed patterns at first, then getting into molded bits and pieces and finally into re-working physical parts. This will all take decades to develop.
A good example of what I think is in more products near future is the bicycle. The frame might say “trek” but the gears, brakes, seat, wheels might all have other brands. I don’t think we are far (25 years?) from a Sony display with nVidia graphics, sound by Bose with an operating system from Apple (I’m invisioning some kind of home theatre/computer here).
Knobs: I would like to see an example of this as well. Knobs require higher cost parts than a simple push button, and I certainly don’t see more at Wal-Mart.
I’m biased because I’m into Interaction design, but the trend is definitely to replace “digital” with “analog.” This is resulting in a lot of products using knobs, wheels and other analog devices that previously relied on digital keypads. Such as:
iPod (and ripoffs)
Microwaves
BMW iDrive
Jog-Dials (Sony everything, mice, T-Mobile Sidekick…)
PC keyboards (volume etc.)
Various home entertainment products and remotes
Digital Cameras (to emulate behavior of analog cameras)
The new force-feedback knobs are ultra-sexy, but haven’t seen them in the market except in the BMW iDrive… Gotta give up a kidney though.
agreed if you did a survey of auto HVAC controls over tha past 20 years they all went from sliders, to fancy digital like push buttons, and then to simple round dials.
Out of retro, I hope simplicity will continue to arise.
When I was working in a Fine Art gallery in Chelsea, NYC, I realized how many movie producers, fashion designers, other design field people and people with lots money are into its scene. Basically lot of trend come out from the Fine Arts paintings, installation, sculpture, comtemporary movements and the interaction between crossed relations of different fields.
I have seen many similar things as craft-fine art-design crossed works in the galleries as Fine Art, and later on it was redesigned<remade, copied> by others and became different form of products-ex. lighting, table top, shoe colors, trendy clothings, furnitures and etc.
Now, what I see as trend in Fine Art and Design as all are:
Retro-again, yes, going back to the past-not only in style, but looking back one’s childhood, sweet times, and family valued. White ipod <why not?> other electronics, lots of cars, table top and etc.
In contrast, there are lot of unsweet childhood, lonely times were shown.
It became: Gothic Arts-again could be retro. Dull yet beauty in its darkness things. Death as sensuality things, or fear of death and desire to die mixed togther. Toy design and fashion design are much closer to this. I also feel Cross Fire the sports car as similar style. What about U2’s black ipod?
Post Feminine arts-Feminized contexts, celebration of being women as both in one’s sexual desire and hidden aggression. Can one be proud of self is before, how to celebrate it is now.
Ghetto Arts-Anti Fine arts like Fine Arts/ Anti Design like Designs. If you can design, I can do too but in cheap way. Everyday objects turned into something else things. Unmanufactured/ hand crafted like feelings.
Things are look simpler, yet layered in its context. One thing do many things in function-multiple personality effect of our city lives? business sales minded?
…Finally got around to the Bruce Sterling lecture.
He starts by listing 6 trends connected to the concept of what he calles “spimes” (a form of product.) This is connected to the Viridian movement.
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- Interactive Chips for labeling (RFID)
- Local and Global Positioning
- Powerful Search Engines
- 3D virtual design of objects
- Rapid prototyping production/computer fab of objects
- Cradle to Cradle manufacturing
The Viridian movement has fine ideals, but has not taken into account how long it takes to change human nature. That is not a list of trends, but technology. Maybe Sterling is taking a page from McLuhan… the technology is the trend.
I agree about the white iPod look. Olympus has white cameras, Nokia has white phones and I’m sure PC cases, televisions and even stereo equipment will go all-white.
I also notice that printers seem to be looking a lot more like the fronts and backs of automobiles. Maybe it’s kind a facial anthopomorphic thing?
:)ensen.
Oh man, you reminded me of another one! footwear and automotive design have become interchangeable. I think CAID is partially responsible for this trend: on a PC monitor, a car is about shoe-size, and modeling a shoe and a car typically happens at the same scale (the scale forced by the monitor.)
i agree term “retro” is being abused. i have distinct idea of what Retro is - a stylistic trend in same way as New Edge. but it’s primarily 50’s/60’s style (80’s!?). and not retro in the sense of revisiting old solutions. to me that’s just good design. knobs isn’t “retro”. its not “style”. its Ergonomic. its an appropriate solution for matching the human organism to machine. that transcends style afaic. if we had to go back to it, thats only bc someone forgot that a product has to function and a human has to use it. someone let style trump ergo. or got excited by some technology. like dirt cheap plastic overlay membrane instead of real buttons. happens alot unfortunately.
when i think Retro i think Gilliam’s “Brazil”. circa 1985 or 87. Retro style really caught hold with the movie. suddenly the look was hip. got carried forward independently by Gale, Herlitz and company at Chrysler. they were 60’s era hot-rodders. got into modding 50’s cars. they really brought the style into the 90’s automotive scene. it co-existed with New Edge, Biomorphic (aka jelly bean) and then Chiselled. they might have sparked Ford’s interest in doing something. the return to a 50’s/60’s Thunderbird. and the rest. and the market supports it. even now. it’s the Baby Boomers doing the buying. they feel the nostalgia. not for the 80’s, but for the 50’s and 60’s. even up to the early 70’s. thing is, Retro as a style trend has been hanging on for almost 20 years! its less a trend and more a constant. and thats the macro issue.
just like the art world there has been no major trend in a while. everything is a mix. and its in every segment - art, fashion, music, design. and it will get crazier imo. its like a Design Doppler Effect:
- Retro kicks off in mid 80’s. Euro/SnowWhite dies out in the U.S. (mostly).
- New Edge shows up. but also never goes away.
- then Biomorphic. shows up. never goes away.
- Edge morphs to Chisel. other variations. still around today.
- and now we’ve got the Apple SnowWhite all over again! super clean. geometric.
the noise is deafening and the train still isnt anywhere near the station.
- Asian influences will mix in (already have).
- Eastern European influences are showing up (i personally think their stuff is very cool).
and the manufacturing world will contribute to the ever increasing cacophony. some like Oreck (!) will dig out old tools. never invest in new design. throw it out there and older buyers will snap it up. nostalgia. trust. others will go bleeding edge. on-demand manufacturing just on the horizon. like a tidal wave.
Design Chaos. the peak at which that doppler effect is loudest. how long will it last? when will a real design language ever emerge as a real trend? will one? should one? and what does that say about the marketplace? when anyone can grab a free 3D modeler or use an eMachine version and make there own. when they can print metal parts. when DIY is more than just stringing beads on a necklace, what happens?
as for Goth as retro. got a chuckle. Bauhaus is circa '78. commercial Goth hit mid-80’s. it’s long in the tooth and not at all new. and maybe Crossfire is a “gothic” design. but Eric is more sophisticated than that. he was influenced early on by archaelogy. Mayan art. aso. in that way it might be “Goth” - which is basically Celtic. but Goth cannot really be Retro. if anything, neo-Goths glom onto Retro bc they dont know better afaic.
different subject, but Sterling’s lecture is worth a listen for anyone who hasnt made the time.
as for Goth as retro. got a chuckle. Bauhaus is circa '78. commercial Goth hit mid-80’s. it’s long in the tooth and not at all new. and maybe Crossfire is a “gothic” design. but Eric is more sophisticated than that. he was influenced early on by archaelogy. Mayan art. aso. in that way it might be “Goth” - which is basically Celtic. but Goth cannot really be Retro. if anything, neo-Goths glom onto Retro bc they dont know better afaic.
Goth was long in the tooth in westernworld, but in the eastern era, its Goth is in other place. Because we are no longer living in westernized era, we are more of mixed, neo? post-modern culture where all things are emerging, Goth in western can be new to those who wasn’t familiar with late 70’s and 80’s.
Gothic style as trend in Arts -it could be Celtic or it could be 80’s Goth Rock movement like, however I was pointing to larger trend in its style as in Arts-not only in ID.
Call it Modern Gothic. As cringe-worthy as my term for it is, there’s a lot of work around right now that fits the designation. Young critics are keen on it, magazines are featuring it, galleries are showing it and next month’s Whitney Biennial will have a fair share of it. When certain things become visible they become visible all at once. It was that way with Neo-Expressionist painting and graffiti art in 1981, Neo-Geo in 1986 and scatter and slacker art in the early '90s. The current Gothic revival is less a movement than a trend.
So why Gothic now? First, we need to remember that ever since the Enlightenment killed off Satan in the 18th century, the artistic imagination has relished filling the void. > The Gothic has never really left; one hell was replaced by another. Still, the present materialization has a sense of timing to it. > On September 11 we all witnessed what could be described as a manifestation of the demonic.
None of us knows what will hit us next, but things feel heavy. In the art world, fear and confusion have brought about a return of the metaphysical, even if it’s only skin-deep. There’s been a shift from the big picture to the little one, from the cultural to the sub-cultural, the outer world to the inner one. Cults are more absorbing to artists than society; optimism has turned into skepticism. But things aren’t black and white. Although many claim it’s dead, irony thrives. Indeed, almost all art that could be called Gothic has an ironic edge: It’s aware of its position, even the absurdity of its position, yet it persists with sincere tongue in ironical cheek.
you can find the full article here: http://www.artnet.com/Magazine/features/jsaltz/saltz2-4-04.asp
I loved the term, Design Chaos. I strongly agree about it.
Thus somehow I feel that design language has been already there-like other things. However again, when it is visible, it might be emerged into other parts of cultural sponge.
context. Gothic cannot be Retro (big “R”) bc that is too limiting. “Gothic has never really left”. but Retro style has a definite timeframe. Gothic art doesnt fit within Retro at all. and a new trend/movement would deserve its own title. maybe Modern Gothic. but even that wouldnt be “retro” (little “r”). it would be a “revival”. like your quote says.
now the limited definition (Goth - not Gothic) used today springs from late 70’s Goth Rock. its not even real Gothic. its a mix of different things. sometimes serious and dark and sometimes tongue-in-cheek (again like your quote). but Goth isnt new either. its been hanging on just like all the rest since the 80’s. so even that is “long in the tooth”. and cant be Retro (big “R”) either bc it doesnt fit inside Retro timeframe.
at best, Goths like Retro style stuff which borrowed from Gothic art (the big version).
sorry. that was me.
Goth as what we believe now is Gothic, actually.
Goth is : Middle English Gothes, Gotes (plural), partly from Old English Gotan (plural); partly from Late Latin Gothi (plural)
: a member of a Germanic people that overran the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era
Goth that you are talking is abbreviation of Gothic.
: of, relating to, or constituting a revival or adaptation of the Gothic especially in literature or architecture.
It is a modernized language for a certain style.
The mentality is, ‘I want to be left alone but I want to be seen. I want to see the shock on other peoples’ faces."
There is also,
Gothic Revival: an artistic style or movement of the 18th and 19th centuries inspired by and imitative of the Gothic style especially in architecture.
Its unique music, art and literature.
The use of extreme black clothing, light colored makeup, unusual hair styles, body piercing, bondage items, etc.
A fascination with medieval, Victorian and Edwardian history.
Wearing of symbols such as a Christian cross; an Egyptian ankh or “Eye of Ra,” or “Eye of Horus;” a Wiccan pentacle, a Satanic inverted pentacle. etc.Goths tend to be non-violent, pacifistic, passive, and tolerant. Many in the media have mistakenly associated Goth with extreme violence and hatred of minorities, white supremacy, etc.
Many Goths write about being depressed. Followers seem sullen and withdrawn, when in public. They are often much more “happy and carefree in the company of [other] Goths.”
The Goth culture: its history, practices, stereotypes, religious connections, etc.
Goth music although never left us, Goth movement had its in and outs. Just like other trends, its movement even if it is a subculture, attracts audiences and followers–this is when it becomes trend.
Followers of Goth Rock may now became parents, changed their styles, but perhaps they are longing for their nostalgic youth.
Subculture that now more easily visible means movement that out grew into a main culture-once more, trend: that can become deflected, inclined but not disappeared- thus it had its starting and end points to restart.
for some reason your focusing on Gothic/Goth. i’m not. i’m discussing this -
“Retro: retro what? I think this term is used to widely and we should perhaps re-examine where we use it. For example, I thought the original iMac was inspired by modernism because it attempted to strip away the decoration of the enclosure and celebrate the functional components inside. Is it retro though? The newest iMac is closer to '80’s modernism. Very cubic. Is that retro?”
Retro as a style is not retro as in going backward like the prefix. and Retro as a style is a subset. not a superset. “Brazil” is set in a Gothic environment. but the products and details are Retro within it. subset.
Goth was just an example how one style could become a trend. Even if someone believe it never left us, I was writing what it really meant.
Retro in design can both be ergonomically retro, but nostalgically retro also.
Because it is trend in Future-which is now, its function alters with technology as you said. Thus ipod’s nob for 50’s-60’s cars and radio emerges with modernism’s Minimalism movement-trend, which are appearing to us because we are both growing older <grand parents & parents generations in U.S> at the same time, simplicity tells us we need things simpler in this complicated city life. However, this retro stuff is strong marketing. Because it works and it sells. It feels like new and old at the same time as we are all immortals.
Black i-pod <I am not just saying Black i-pod, other things in general>
also tells us U2 fan’s longing for going back to 70’s 80’s and perhaps 90’s. Their younger years, when things in U.S were much fun than right now. At list we want to look back on our past, or we might wish that THAN is forever as NOW is tomorrow. New Romance in literature, Goth in music, Underground in Fine Arts are all saying similar things. Life and Death. Retro is Revival of memory, sweet or unsweet. Even in chaos, there is an order.
YKH: good point about many of these trends being macro long term realities. Something I often here people say (outside design as well), “oh hold on to that, it will be back in fashion someday”. Perhaps retro is always with us, but moves around the time periods it is imitating?
Interesting how many trends are still alive…perhaps this niche design & personalization are the real trends.
lets back up.
In contrast, there are lot of unsweet childhood, lonely times were shown.
It became: Gothic Arts-again could be retro. Dull yet beauty in its darkness things. Death as sensuality things, or fear of death and desire to die mixed togther. Toy design and fashion design are much closer to this. I also feel Cross Fire the sports car as similar style. What about U2’s black ipod?
i think we’re mixing things up.
read up on Gothic Art (circa 12th Century). then on Gothic Revival 18th/19th C. then on Neo-Gothic in early 20th C. you seem to be confusing Gothic Art w the bastardized Neo-Gothic “Death as sensuality” version. think you’ll find that Neo-Gothic/Art Nouveau is what was resurrected in late 70’s music (and which i’ve been into since the early 80’s). i’m not being specific so i’m contributing to confusion.
then lets start again.
Yes, you are right on that
Neo-Gothic/Art Nouveau.
I was using Goth - as in modern Goth, not in very first Goth Art or 18th or 19th revival as a part of trend.
Sorry that if anyone was confused for this.
ok. so even if its Neo-Goth that got resurrected in late 70’s, it hasnt gone away any time since. just never became Pop Culture. its actually been pretty consistent last 20-something years.
so can (Neo-)Gothic be Retro (big “R”)? no. Neo-Gothic is still earlier. Retro may have Neo-Gothic/Art Nouveau elements in it. but Neo-Gothic cant be 50’s/60’s design.
can Neo-Gothic be retro (little “r”). i dont see how. it was retro in '79. but it has hung on. i’d even say the disconnect prior to '79 was short. maybe 5 years. there was a Goth subculture even in the 60’s and early 70’s. less obvious. people most have never heard of. but very influential behind the scenes.
a better, related trend to watch might be the one that Neo-Gothic was part of: the Arts and Crafts movement. that was the real anti-industrial component. kind of stuff that could be coming again with new technology empowering individuals. both in fabrication and distribution. a DIY thing…
ok. so even if its Neo-Goth that got resurrected in late 70’s, it hasnt gone away any time since. just never became Pop Culture. its actually been pretty consistent last 20-something years.
As time has been shifting, subculture has its ups and downs. You mentioned that it has been consistent for last 20-something years and it hasn’t been never a Pop culture, but how would you explain about cyber-goth? Gothic dolls that were everywhere in NY toy fair for last few years again and again? How would you explain the followers of Asian Goth? Japan’s Gothic girls? Big O the animation 1 and 2. What about Gothic movies that now we no longer feel it wierd or subcultural? Such band as Marilyn Manson and a contact lense style named after him, “The Marilyn Manson Look.” His 1996 album “Antichrist Superstar” came fifth in Classic Rock Magazine’s list of the 30 greatest concept albums of all time. When the Goth was so popular and visible before? <although there are words that Manson is not Goth, he’s just wierd>
“Neo-Goth” has been breeding within our post modern culture.
Now I know what you mean it can’t be Retro or retro.
The Goth band movement in 70s and 80s that people were so into was the start and the peak at the same time, and it declined and grew old in its popularity, but again, it reborn and name itself “subculture” to attract the main culture.
Matal Goth, Corporate Goth, Cyber Goth and Doll Goth : ex. success of Emily the Strange http://www.emilystrange.com/ in late 90’s, and Alexander McQueen’s http://www.alexandermcqueen.net/flash.html rising in fashion world now support the theory of mine. Who would knew that Goth could sell this much?