Views on Kyoto protocol

What do you guys think about Kyoto protocol, for? against? why?

Kyoto doesn’t include India or China to my knowledge.

By 2010 it is estimated that China and India will account for over 75% of the world’s man made green house gass production. Without those two countries, Kyoto agreement has no real function other than political gain, leverage and posturing.

Sorry, they had a 60minutes episode on it a couple of weeks ago.

That sounds like a bit childish a position, like “I do it if you do it first”.
The fact is that USA accounts for 36.1% at the moment. It doesn’t have to be any “posturing”, ok there might be a bit of marketing in the whole protocol thing, but at least it is an intention.

I’m confused:

You ask for opinions and then call the first response childish?

No, I’m sorry, i didn’t mean it that way, I meant that the opinion on that TV episode is childish. In the sense that this is a very serious issue, and blaming others for not getting the own job done is a position I don’t recall as responsible, hence my answer, sorry for that.

This is all too familiar.

Maybe envirobot and ufo are cousins. :smiling_imp:

but anyway, today i woke up with the greenpeace mindset (i read something in the paper the other day), but tomorrow i’m designing stupid plastic stuff if the client asks for it, so don’t mind me too much).

cousin of UFO ? (that hurts

…that’s a tough one to just shrug off.

I respect the intentions of the document, but I believe that it is too caught in the past and the present. To actually do something it must consider the future.

You know the saying, “the worst of this world was conceived with the best of intentions” … or something like that.

Any plan to reduce emissions, including Kyoto, are doomed to fail if they do not address purchasing habits. Reduce consumption and you automatically reduce production. Since current economic thinking promotes consumption we will find ourselves buried in our own crap. I believe it was John Maynard Keynes who said we should buy ourselves out of a recession and the pie keeps getting bigger. Maybe the world economy should go on a diet.

:)ensen.

Ok, i agree, but shouldn´t the states propose an agenda? an option?

I don’t think it is as simple as getting the Chinese to stop burning coal or teaching Brazil to replant forests. It is a society-level change.

So how do nations legislate culture?

Take Canadians… we have to teach ourselves not to waste fresh water, swap our snow tires in March, turn down thermostat in November. Can you teach Americans not to use fast food drive-thru or air-conditioners? What about Brits stop drinking beer or Germans drive slower on the Autobahn?

One example of this is biligualism in Canada. There was a law and it took 2 generations for young parents to see the advantages and actually insist on sending their kids to French immersion schools.

But partial success and failure is more likely. Eg. introduction of metric system to Canada and USA. Failure in the USA, even though all technology is being created using metric system. In Canada, only automotive sector has made the transition to metric. Everywhere else, old English system. Pounds for weight, inches for short distances and acres for real estate.

Regulating consumption is even more difficult because economy relies on consumption for survival. Advertising and marketing are king and demand is created by hype rather than need. This is global due to multi-national corporations vying for market share in all sectors.

Seems hopeless, except that humans are very good at adapting during a crisis. Contrary to what is said by eco-warriors, we are not yet at crisis. There is trouble brewing, but the cliff is not yet in view.

:)ensen.

I agree with purplepeopledesign - things will really change when society itself changes. The Kyoto protocol will not do that, no matter how many countries adopt it or how much legislation is drafted to lower pollution. Forcing it upon people and industries will only get you so far, and even then it is a delicate balance

I personally think it is hypocritical to pressure America, or any other country, into getting on board when some of the worst are given a pass, such as India and China.

I also think that more ground could be made in US companies demanding that China, etc., clean up their act before goods will be purchased or manufactured there.

The most important thing that any socially responsible designer can do is throw out EVERY argument you’ve ever heard about systems and sustainability and pick up a marketing book.

Environmentalism is a hard sell because it requires sacrifice. Look around you, record levels of obesity, and the rise of SUVs; people are addicted to consumption. Our society was built on a system that demands massive consumption.

I’ve built my view of environmentalism around consumption. Consumption is good if people consume the right things.

We as designers have to stop moaning about the ills of society and use our talents (industrial designers do design product after all) to create products with responsible aims. Responsible materials are beautiful in their own right and it will take a great bit of marketing savvy to “educate” people.

Taking the sacrifice out of environmentalism is the only way to achieve a sustainable world.

well put