The value of design........convincing engineers.

Design Discussions general design discussion
1

Hello all

I currently work as part of a design team within a product development company. Our current main product focus has been in the telecommunication sector.

Within the design team, the “value of design” is well understood and appreciated, but within the organization, specifically the engineers see little value in design.

This results in two things. A constant battle, to validate the value of design. This is sometimes difficult, especially with things like aesthetics, style or form. This often knocks on/dictates certain criteria in their world.

Secondly, most designers know that they can’t do an electronic engineers job and therefore respect and appreciate there knowledge. BUT from my experience “most” electronic engineers think they can design. Innovating in an environment like this is also very difficult as you have to really earn respect (if this is even possible). Engineers operate at a scientific/calculated level and to “most” of them design isn’t a science, but more an artsy fartsy career.

What do you think…?

Our team is currently building a presentation to educate/enlighten our scientific colleagues. If you have any ideas, suggestions, warnings, examples, they would be appreciated

Many thanks

8lade

2

With my limited experience in the real world, l learnt that aesthetic and form factor is one of the last things that you want to use to convince then engineers with.

What do ID designers do?

Ergonomics
Components packaging ( often )
Setting parameter for manufacturing ( make sure the tooling is fine etc )
Setting the Brand ( along with marketing, therefore ties back to aesthetics )
User research, which provides both reasons and supports for what we do as mentioned.
User Interface
Many many more.

I think when talking to engineers, we have to present ourselves as people who contribute just as much on technical level as they do. Some aspects of design can’t be measured, some can.

3

Use real world examples:

Motorola RAZR
Apple iMac and iPod
Oxo Googrips
Dyson vacuum cleaners
Whirlpool Duet
Aeron Chair

Go out and buy “Creating the Perfect Design Brief: How to Manage Design for Strategic Advantage” by Peter L. Philips.

I read it and have successfully turned my boss over to the “dark side”. I am the only IDer and am part of the product marketing group at the company I work for. Up until now, they thought of me as the make-it-pretty-guy.

I demonstrated that ID is a process and is integral to Innovation and fills in the gaps no marketing report or engineering spec document can address in the product development process. For my presentation, I brought in my trusty old Oxo Goodgrips cork pull and illustrated how that product would have never came to be without ID. When looking at the product, you cannot separate the ID from its functionality nor its structure. That got the point across that ID shouldn’t be the afterthought once the engineers finish their work.

Spend some time on the DMI website as well - tons of info there.

This is a good article as well:

4

MC (mooh) I hear you, but “most” engineers really only see design as the “plastics” or “enclosures” or pretty-making department, and if they could have it their way design would most definitely be an after thought in the process.

Thanks for your comments nydesignguy. I had a read at that article. Interesting.

Cheers

8lade

5

I think this might be part of your problem, I have heard a lot of “horror” stories of of trying to convince an engineer of the “value” of design.

I have also worked with a lot of engineers with no such incident.

Perhaps it is because i have taken a lot of time to really try to understand
every aspect of the design process, part of which is engineering.

If you were to learn what “they” do and why “they” do it, and show “them” that you understand and respect their job, you might be surprised what you get in return.

Another benefit of having a modest understanding of engineering is that you can design to exploit manufacturing techniques and capabilities as oppossed to being oppressed by them.

6

why would a designer debate aesthetics with an engineer? do you debate circuit board layouts with the electronic engineers? or mold flow with a tooling engineer? that conversation shouldn’t be happening imo.

when theres a conflict, imo the entire product should be considered. sometimes that means a pretty shape gets modified. we’re Industrial Designers. not artists. however, if you’re savvy and smart, you’ll find a mistake in the engineering logic for what they want to do. nature is well-engineered. it isn’t ugly.

find examples for what you want. ask alot of “Why can’t you do this” questions. the minute an engineer says “Well, we could” you’ll probably discover it’s not that they can’t, but that they don’t feel it’s worth their time and energy. which is when we go back to…

Why are you having the discussion in the first place? they’re not paid to make aesthetic judgements. YOU are.

7

i aggree that it’s tough to ‘sell’ engineers on the value ID brings to the table. I especially relish it when working with engineers and seeing the results of thier work without ID input, and the work with ID input.

One point i’d like to make though, is that more and more in our business and product development circles, we are expected to work as an integrated group of ‘designers’ that means that engineers, as well as ID’ers are considered designers. It’s not about us vs. them.

ID’ers need to be more focused on core comeptencies, and make it clear that groups cannot thrive without us.

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quite often

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the context is generic. i’m also an engineer. i debate many things. but the worth of citing my personal examples is questionable here.

10

To say an engineer has no input on aesthetics is to say a designer has no input on engineering, but if that’s the case you are always going to but heads. Maybe a designer has no business being concerned with engineering and vice versa, BUT design affects engineering and engineering affects design. If you can’t attain harmony then you are doomed to fail… or make art

If you accept input from other fields durring your part of the process perhaps others would do the same for you.

I guess it all really comes down to a personal definition of design and how much you are willing to be accountable for.

For me, i believe i should be able to affect a product in every phase from concept to the shelf. I know not everyone is afforded that reach, but i can’t understand why if given the chance you would turn it down.


One point i’d like to make though, is that more and more in our business and product development circles, we are expected to work as an integrated group of ‘designers’ that means that engineers, as well as ID’ers are considered designers. > It’s not about us vs. them> .

This is what i was really trying to get at, i definitely wasn’t trying to pick a fight with, argue with or own anyone.

I just get frustrated when i hear people make blanket complaints about “engineering” or “marketing” because i know for a fact that those groups make just as many blanket complaints about “designers”



Nahmeeen?

GO TEAM!!!

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i didn’t say they had “no input”. i used the word “debate”. big huge difference.

One point i’d like to make though, is that more and more in our business and product development circles, we are expected to work as an integrated group of ‘designers’ that means that engineers, as well as ID’ers are considered designers. > It’s not about us vs. them> .

This is what i was really trying to get at, i definitely wasn’t trying to pick a fight with, argue with or own anyone.

I just get frustrated when i hear people make blanket complaints about “engineering” or “marketing” because i know for a fact that those groups make just as many blanket complaints about “designers”

agree. which is why i said “when theres a conflict, imo the entire product should be considered. sometimes that means a pretty shape gets modified. we’re Industrial Designers. not artists.”

i never have issues with engineering tbh. i ask the questions that help me understand what their concerns are. if valid, i act for the sake of the overall product. but if the issue is that they don’t want to bother ONLY bc they don’t see the value in the extra effort (e.g. to use a curve instead of a line), then for the good of the product i do what i’m paid to do. when presented in a logical way most engineers are happy to work toward a successful product. just don’t expect them to see aesthetics as contributing to that. and when the issue is not an engineering one, take their input (and everyone else’s), but don’t debate your decision.

12

8lade,

  1. Where is marketing in all this?
  2. Is design subserviant to another discipline (like engineering) in your organization?

The answers to those two questions may point out the fundamental problem you’re experiencing.

13

CG, to answer question #1, I would have to say that depending on what product you are designing and for what market segment, design plays various roles. I do believe that every human being (possibly even animals…and maybe even engineers…not that engineers are animals…lol) have a sense of style and an appreciation of good design. This links into status and the perception thereof via the ownership or association of certain products e.g. fiat drivers Vs Ferrari drivers.
What I am getting at is certain markets might have varying levels of design value and might appreciate function over form rather than the reverse.

Our products are in essence aimed at emerging markets and are distributed through various channels. It’s often these channels (distributors) that are marketing’s “client” but the designers’ “client” should be the end-user.

CG, our history with our marketing guys has been limited ito the amount of “real” market info we receive from them. We have had a marketing “shake-up” which might prove to be more supportive, but not to sound negative I don’t think it’s going to help. What I do believe will help, is that as I have proposed

Our team is currently building a presentation to educate/enlighten our scientific colleagues. If you have any ideas, suggestions, warnings, examples, they would be appreciated

I think communicating to marketing will also be a great help.

Question #2; is design subservient to another discipline (like engineering) in your organization?

I would say that the “management” (i.e. directors and senior managers) see design on equal par in terms of value in a products development. In the eyes of the general engineer’s population, I think that they think design is very subservient, almost to the point of not being necessary.

I believe that “design” should also play a more strategic role in our organizations business, in defining product visions and road maps.

This can all be corrected though, through effective communication and that is why we need to formulate a well oiled presentation to blow their minds, and maybe a few heart attacks. Kazzzzzaaaammmm.

till later

8lade

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oops :laughing:
i was the “guest”, forgot to login.

8lade

15

At my last corporate gig I allied myself with the engineers and it made my life sooooo much easier. You just need to get to know them and figure out how you can work together and collaborate. Ask lots of questions up front and keep them involved in the design process as much as possible. If you are interested in what they have to offer then the same will come back to you. I know a lot of engineers that are fascinated with the design process and love to learn more about it.

If you team up with the engineers and make a unified front you will also find yourself in fewer conflicts with management and marketing. If you believe in something, and you convince the engineers to go along, then the management and marketing people have a much harder time screwing with your designs and making constant circle jerk changes to things. Before I learned this I had problems with engineers and they would agree with changes just to get people off their backs and without knowing the original intent. What did they care if a curve on a part was changed, if it didn’t affect their workload then they would say go for it.

If they understand where you are coming from, and why you did something a certain way, then when the cost cutters come around and try to slash your designs you will have advocates stopping them in their tracks. That is unless your design really is bad and even the engineers know it.

16

Stay away from a confrontational or comparative presentation, especially if it is made to engineers alone. If management and marketing are also present you have a chance to really shine and focus on ID’s typical strengths in corporate settings. From having worked and still collaborating with engineers for many years, emphasize these with some examples:

  1. User-focused problem-solving. While technically savvy, designers need not duplicate engineers or technicians at various levels to prove their worth. It so happens excellent technical people are aplenty in all industries. But designers with an innate feel for customer needs and wants are very hard to come by. That’s where the money really is - in ideas - the rest is execution.

  2. Safety aspects (product/packaging/transport). It’s incredible how most engineers fail to even consider.

  3. Environmental/social considerations. Goes without saying. Makes your firm a good corporate citizen too.

  4. Efficient, intuitive product use by all groups of users (ergonomics). Sell your department as “a translator of technology into products”. Engineers are not trained to create products, but technologies. They THINK design is easy. It takes designers to bridge the gap to usable products based on the latest technologies and we’re all too familiar with that flashing “12:00” on older VCRs or remote controls with 100 keys no one uses except for channel and volume changes.

  5. Simplicity. A vast majority of even experienced engineers have an inborn talent for over-complexifying everything and have never heard of the K.I.S.S. priciple. Good designers practice elegant reductionism, thus increasing product reliability while reducing cost, a major competitive advantage. Engineers were tinkerers as kids and really enjoy adding complexity, features, mechanisms and parts long after a problem is solved.

  6. Product character and personality. Tough sell to engineers but they’ll just have to take your word for it the same way you swallow their techno-babble when they like to show off. If your firm has a design department it is because it likely isn’t in the commodities business. Branding and establishing a firm and memorable image of your company and products is largely your business and engineering has you to thank for making them stand out. Technology is the commodity today.

Fortunately, more engineers coming out of schools today are aware of the existence of professional design but it’s still uphill for most designers when it comes to such collaborations. Both engineers and architects are somehow taught they “own” design and consequently act the way you described. The moment you show them in metric terms how intuition trumps scientific knowledge in creating products, they will come around.

And remind them Albert Einstein himself said, in a famous quote, that imagination is more important than knowledge. Creative engineers rarely berate designers.

We’re all pioneers still, that’s what we are.

17

:smiley: Many thanks Egg.
your comments are very helpful and have been noted.

We are planning to do a company wide presentation (it will be a voluntary attendance, which might not be a good thing.) so marketing and management will be their.

I was thinking about doing two things, firstly, sending out an invitation mail with all the details of the presentation, but also a list of pertinent questions that could be used in a mini survey.

Secondly, I am going to have t-shirts printed for the presentation that say,
WE LOVE (heart) ENGINEEERS. :smiling_imp: …lol

Anyway appreciate all the comments.

8lade