Speaking as a citizen of the world. Obama in Berlin 08

O.K. Folks,

Normally I refrain from posting political commentary on non political boards.
But this time I just have to.

Please make sure that everyone, who has the honarable right to vote as an american citizen in the next presidential election, knows about the historical speech Obama delivered today in berlin to the people of the world, as he spoke not only as an US Senator, but as a World Citizen.
I must admit, I didn´t expect his speech, to be that adequate to the historical context, the place and the challenges we all as an international community are facing right now. I would love to point out here, how brightly he enveloped not only the Kennedy speech (that everybody will now), but also the speech of Berlin Mayor Ernst Reuter: “People of this world… look upon this city…” into the agenda he delivered today.

Within the first few sentences Obama scattered all those acusations, that he hadn´t enough “international experience”. Growing up on 2 different continents might have done more to shape his vision than any military service could have.

Man It will be damned difficult to live up to that “picture” of united manhood he painted today, as the next US President. - But at least he doesn´t aim low with that kind of campaign.

And the reactions of the european lead-media allready are absolutely remarkable:

LE MONDE: A Berlin, Barack Obama appelle à "faire tomber les murs" entre les pays

Corriere de la Serra:
http://www.corriere.it/esteri/08_luglio_24/obama_berlino_italia_c5018634-59a5-11dd-94cb-00144f02aabc.shtml

HERALD TRIBUNE:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/24/america/obama.php

EL Mundo:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/07/24/internacional/1216918921.html

I hope this speech will show up on youtube later…:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Obama+speech+Berlin&search_type=&aq=-1&oq=

Kennedy:

(Unfortunately I can´t find Reuter`s speech in english at the moment.)
edited on october 2nd 2008: Berlin Airlift on youtube Berlin Airlift - YouTube

Thank you for reading.

Yours mo-i

he has no experiance, he like kennedy has charisma (guts who knows) and hopefully unlike kennedy he is not loaded full of prescription drugs…

Anyone who’s done any research on the candidates knows Barrack Obama is kind of like the Wizard of Oz. Good with the teleprompter but a bumbler in real conversation/debate.

He is a bad judge of character, as evidenced by connections with Pastor Wright and many others.

He is naive and unknowledgable and has in the last month flip-flopped on 9 significant issues (including Iraq).

He hasn’t even proven that he was born in the U.S. (required by the Constitution)

But worst of all, he thinks socialism is the answer and the United States should surrender it’s sovereignty to the world.

My only solace is that most of his proclaimed policies are just to placate the extreme left and that when he gets elected, he’ll be more moderate (he’s already started by changing positions on many issues recently).

It’s ironic that when so many small developing countries are improving their quality of life through free markets, the U.S. has somehow developed a mindset that they are bad…

Sorry for the rant, guys…

So, what exactly are his “socialist” views and which political
actions result from them?

How did he “flipflop” on Irak?

Wasn´t McCain the one, who might or might not be born on US soil??

Teach me :

I’m excited to see Obama as our president. No candidate will EVER please ALL citizens of the US. Its up to us to use our judgement and say “Ok, he feels differently about such and such policy than I do, but as a whole he’s the best candidate.”

At least he doesn’t have a track record of scandal like McCain…

I was reviewing the Savings and Loan scandal of the 80s the other day, and came across this tidbit of information…

If you’ll also notice, a Bush relative was also involved.

I couldn’t help but make an observation I had when I read mo-i’s initial post:

Seems to me that the US right now is a country that is feeling pretty defeated and helpless - everything from our economy all the way to national security feels like it is going down the tubes. But in this hour of darkness, behold this man of incredible charisma! With his silver tongue he manages to connect with people of all political stripes on an emotional and personal level. He brings great promise of “hope” and “change”…

Now come with me to another country; beaten, broken, economy in the gutter. National pride non-existant, the population has almost resigned itself to being forever doomed to be trampled upon by greater powers. Then along comes a man of off-the-charts charisma and presense. With his wordsmithing and stagecraft he awakens the people’s pride and with him he brings great promise of “hope” and “change”…

The former scenario is, as stated, the US today and that messiah of “hope” and “change” is Barrack Obama. The latter scenario I would think that mo-i would recongize as his homeland of Germany in the 1930’s and the messiah of that time and place was - Adolf Hitler…


Just a situational parallel I wanted to share. Do I think that Obama is tantamount to the greatest horror our species has ever produced? Of course not, but I can’t help but be extremely skeptical towards a person who has moved so many people by doing so incredibly little. The way everyone fawns over the very idea of him makes me nervous…almost like lemmings running towards the cliff. So forgive me if I don’t join you all in unabashed adulation and hero-worship.

Now having said all of that, am I the only person who isn’t really thrilled about anything to do with politics today? I find the petty partisan sniping to be boring… “Republicans are Vile!” , “Democrats are idiots!”. Are we really that intellectually stunted that we can’t have an honest discussion about the world we live in? Seems that everyone is so emotionally attached to their “horse in the race” that nobody can take a step outside of themselves to try and see a bigger picture.

Okay, my ranting is done…

good. the current government is broken.
you will not find any one person who can fix it, better to find someone who can motivate and inspire, whether that is on wall st, main st or congress.

free market? laugh. Our mutated free market gets us Wal-Mart, Industrial Agribuz and predatory lending in a race to the bottom.
Inaddition, the ‘free’ market as so manipulated economic devices so that the mechanisms of free markets no longer work. People who screw up need to fail. The more the US props up its failing institutions, the further we get from a free market.

Oh and once we lose our ‘innovation’ advantage to the people on the shop floor (where all real good ideas come from) you will feel differently about ‘free’ markets.

He is a bad judge of character, as evidenced by connections with Pastor Wright and many others.

Bah. That’s a weak statement. Cherry picking that pastor as some so of inditment on Obama’s character is lame, next you’ll say his middle name has something to do with his religion.

“The lesser of two evils is still evil”.

:neutral_face:

Thank You Skyarrow,

for that critical reply.

“Be careful whom you cheer too.”

There is almost no place in the world thinkable, where this credo might be as applicable as Berlin. This city has seen many leaders come and go within the last 2 centuries, and indeed it’s masses are still a little too movable. And this is why my fiancee thought, that Obama delivered a rhetorically weak speech: At times he even calmed down the masses. He didn’t indulge in applause, he didn´t ride the wave as he could have. Instead he delivered his message as if he stood before a much smaller college campus.

Thus he left out the highest rhetorical ranks - and for good reason as your comment shows.

Indeed, a lot of Europeans don’t know much about his agenda and don’t know how little it differs in foreign affairs from what McCain always tried to put through within his own party. And we Germans did hear his call of duty. But what counted the most at the end of the day was the beginning of his speech:

He spoke as a citizen before fellow citizen in a world community.

If this sounds too “Imagine” to you I can’t help it.

And before I end this post I would love to point out that Obamas track record in befriending opposed people and smoothing things out is enough for me to envisage that his tenure will not show im near Hitler or Stalin.

If we all are lucky he might line up with Roosevelt and Kennedy. IF he fails and history repeats itself he might look like Carter instead.

And I surely wish, that he gives the world a “new deal”.

Peace mo-i

double post on server error. - sorry-

Dick Morris, former top advisor to Bill Clinton, wrote this article on Obama’s flip-flops

http://www.newsmax.com/morris/Obama_Flip_Flops/2008/07/16/113485.html

On Iraq specifically? Back when the surge was decided upon, he was against it. Just a few weeks ago, his website removed all comments he made against the surge.

Again, he is either a bad judge of character or really shares the philosophies of his wacky acquaintances like Pastor Wright, and just doesn’t want to disclose it (either way, not a good quality in a President).

As far as socialist views, Obama’s voting record is the furthest left in the political spectrum of any U.S. Senator, even the openly socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. I think his views are well intentioned, but that doesn’t mean they’re good for the country.

And skyarrow, thank you for your comments, especially the last paragraph. We who care about our country need to discuss and debate solutions. I’m afraid IMO neither presidential candidate offers many of those, really.

I’m afraid IMO neither presidential candidate offers many of those, really. Boy aint that the truth, but thats allways the way. This country, like most wait till our tit is in the wringer and then we get busy. I know your all tired of my “seen it all before” shit but its the truth. At one time the japanese seemed to be on the verge of owning the US, didnt happen, will china do it, dont know but not betting on it. People get down right aggressive and inventive when the water gets too hot…even a frog WILL jump out of the hot pan if the water gets too hot too fast. In the end the politicans dont do dick all about the economy, they think they do and say they do but thats just to placate the folk that need a big bro to direct their lives.

Times now are hard, naw not even close, no stagflation, no double digit prime, no ressession and thats just the 70’s…lets not even talk about 29. People have been electing with their emotions for a long long time, and he/she who can use the new media the best will win (jfk v nixon round 1) untill the others catch up. Obamma is the canadate of the internet kiddies, Mcain is from my era. Who will do the better job, well I think Obamma will if elected hard to say as he is a unknown, so its more likely who his cabinate is made up of that will set direction. I see him as a actor in a role, just a frame to hang desires, and anxities on. Mcain well he has shown his guts, dont know about his cabinate either but I am certain he will listen to and then digest their advice rather than “wait for the polls” then act. You likely dont remember what people realy said about Reagan at the time, pretty heated, but in the end he was right.

Final thought about experice versus charmisma…one of that type damn near got EVERYBODY killed…yup JFK, if the Sov’s had not been (unlike all the reports fed to the politicans) pretty level headed it would have ended in a nasty way (see final epsiode of bsg for current vision). Ok, its no biggie, the pres is just a mid power figure anyway, start paying attention to whom you elect to congress, who chairs the important commities and remember even in the web age, us average folk know just a pittance of whats really going on.

Yeah, I’m only 25 y/o so I wasn’t around then. But even JFK had SOME substance to him. Lower taxes, ask what you can do, not what you can get, etc…

Barack has none and McCain has little…

:unamused:

lower taxes my saggy middle aged ass. I vote for “mac” as he has grit and enough time under his belt to remember…

Were there not tax cuts in '61 or '62? I’m pretty sure about that…

followed by a spending spree of major proportions.

with JFK or LBJ?

The US is already a country full of sissies. The moment someone says something the least bit offensive, some civil rights group starts piping up. We have people like Al Sharpton who sees anything not going his way as being racist. We have cities like SF, who refuse to block off a street for an hour for the Marines to film (in my opinion one of the greatest) commercials becuase it may disrupt traffic but yet don’t have a problem for a gay rights parade. We have groups/cities that are kicking out military recruitment stations but yet when s**t hits that fan, they will be the first ones wanting protection.

I agree that our country is not in the best shape right now but the last thing we need is a president who is going to console these very people that complain. For the most part, it is the far left side that has made us one of the softest countries in the world and IMO, Obama is the one that will make it worse.

When you were a kid and were picked on, you either cried to Mom or did something about it to make sure it didn’t happen. The only way we are going to become a stronger country is by McCain in the office. Sure, I dont agree with everything he says but it is 100% better than Obama’s agenda.

I agree with your first statement and completely disagree with your second. Let me explain.

In my opinion Obama is going to be a sink or swim president. While I desperately wish for him to not be the podunk-all talk liberal that everyone makes him out to be I have little faith that that will come true.

But thats a good thing - because the SOONER we hit rock bottom in this country the sooner we can pick up the pieces and start working out a solution. With McCain (who I had supported to run for president UP until the point where he actually started talking about his policy choices) I view it as being another 4 years of slow decline. With Obama I think we could be in total shambles within 12 months.

People don’t change until they are forced to. McCain might be the better choice in the short term, but I am still going with my anarchists opinion of “let sh!t hit the fan already so we can start cleaning up this mess!”.

Look at the auto industry - suddenly this whole “fuel economy” issue is starting to matter, and we’re going to very rapidly see them attempt to save themselves because the PUBLIC is responding.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better, so we might as well burn this house to the ground and get the worst over with quick.