Yes. That’s what I keep saying all the time 
Why do you think work has to be hard and not fun to be valuable? I know that some employers or clients might thinks in stupid categories like this: “He had fun with it, so I don’t have to pay him for his work”. But that doesn’t mean that me, you, anybody has to think in such categories as well.
At this point, it is only a semantic arguement, but I do agree with you.
Except to point out the obvious, our profession is largely based on making things easier to use. We try to make things less hard. Argueably, our goal is to create lazy. Otherwise we would be rubbing 2 sticks together for fire instead of using a match. And are you going to tell me you have never come up with a good idea when you were doing absolutely nothing?
I do enjoy the irony.
I think you guys are missing something in the point of the list. #1 is meant to be a guide line as to form and develope your own perspective and opinions instead of trying to simply imitate some one else (designers who want to be and model themselves after say Karim) or simply regurgitate what they hear without truly understanding.
the remaining items would be core values that will help you succeed in the the design world.
Also for those who thing Hard work implies a good job or efficiency, I go back to what my 1st year prof told the class. “don’t ever come to me and ask for a better grade just because you worked HARD. if the design is bad then that makes it worse , that you actually put effort into something that was not worth it.”
Chevis W.
My favorite work by Wieden+Kennedy is the Old Spice commercial they did last year. Hilarious, the actor in it was a football player at ASU.
I believe you hit the nail on the head
Incorrect.
I cannot speak for Max2k. I pointed out the irony of Mr. Jay’s communication skills and his lack of clarity.
It is easy to say I am incorrect because you feel you are correct. My point is that you are interpreting his list in ONE linear fashion as it relates to your person interpretation, and your interpretation is wrong. this is not opinion but fact. Look beyond what you think it means and try to find how it could be interpreted in another way, other then how you already are.
Did you read what I wrote about how it is meant to be interpreted, in that sense there is NO irony.
Chevis W.
Cool. Now you are the arbiter of how written words are meant to be interpreted. How did you get that job?
BTW, do the world a favor and tell us how the bible is meant to be interpreted. It will end a whole lot of confusion.
not sure how to respond as I think any type of discussion would fall on deaf ears… It seems as if you are willing to only see your point of view. which you are entitled to do.
Incorrect.
I understand your point of view. I understand Mr. Jay’s intent of the list. What you seem to fail to grasp is that there is never a singular meaning in communicating an idea. This is as true to written words as it is to a sketch and as it is to a three dimensional form. Or are you going to tell me the emotive quality of a design can mean only one thing.
BTW, do you see the irony in you dictating a particular meaning of an idea and the content of Mr. Jay’s first rule?
You can interpret his list anyway you want, but you cannot change the singular point that he was making when creating the list. Or are you saying that because you interpret his list differently then he intended that make your interpretation correct and the authors’ wrong?
With your logic if I tell you to sketch a Box and you provide me with a sphere and i say you are wrong. You can simply justify your actions by saying that you sketched a really rounded box…
I am curious as to where you are in your career?
I just got done reading Anthem, by Ayn Rand. Actually I listened to it, but the story tells of how the main subject’s hard work and ingenuity enables him to make a device that would make it easier for society to work. In the story, the new invention is seen as an evil because work is good, and anything that makes it easier to work fosters laziness. There is a bit of irony there.
Speaking of irony, of course your last sentence is impossible in the literal sense as good ideas come from a combination of previous work and experiences and active thought, which is not the same as doing absolutely nothing. But as you say, it’s all semantics in that I’m sure you didn’t really mean ‘absolutely nothing’ in the literal sense.
You know, there is this book. It is called a dictionary. It provides definitions of words. You will find that one word can have more than one meaning. Amazing. Huh.
So, as a designer, you seem to think there can be only one point of view. How’s that working out for you?
Unfortunately you are still not understanding the point I am trying to make, that the individual who wrote the list was making a particular statement, and you the reader is interpreting it differently then intended. If the Arthur of the list were to tell you that you misunderstood his intentions would you still argue that he is wrong and you are right?
And now it seems that you are interpting my response as a singularity that applies to my whole view on everything…
Also still curious as to were you are in your career? your responses on most all of your posts reminds me of several designers i have come across…
Chevis Watkinson
Let’s keep it civil and on topic here, all.
Thanks,
R
Sorry, my intent was not meant to be disrespectful.
Chevis W.
discussion and disagreement is OK. Just don’t want it to get personal.
If in doubt (anyone), please review the Discussion Board Porting Standards.
R
Incorrect. I understood your point from the start.
Absolutely, yes.
Poor communication skills are poor communication skills. Period. They always lead to unintended interpretations. This holds true for writers and designers. As a designer, I am surprised you don’t understand this fact. Or are you saying a design can’t have an unintended use? If that is the case, I would recommend for you to read The Design of Everyday Things.
Making the world black and white would certainly simplify things. But it isn’t that easy. There is nuance and shades of grey that cause unintened consequences. To deny that is equivalent to burying your head in the sand. Designers should especially be open in viewing things from a different perspective, “wrong” or “right”, “black” or “white” and everything inbetween.
iab, you can stop beating that dead horse now. Lets not make the search for irony your defining online moment.