roaster alpha unit

Not trying to start a pxxxing contest here. I read that this is your “working prototype” and I do
understand how come it looks like that. But I don’t understand how a hermetic and clinical device
is meant to translate the experience that you described yourself in that poetic words above.

I just thought you could elaborate on that, so that we unwashed folks might understand. As most of
your other posts on this board made perfect sense to me I do think that somehow there is a missing
link here.

yours mo-i

good night.

Form follows function?

And then this?

I think nxakt made some awesome observations.

As far as the microwave argument goes…it is far more utilitarian because it serves a very common purpose that most kitchens (people) require; heating food. A do-it-yourself coffee roaster will never reach the level of ubiquity that the microwave has simply because it isn’t a common household requirement, and never will be, even with stellar marketing and a great product. Should roasting be as simple as putting in the beans and pushing a button, reducing it’s function to that similar of a microwave? Or should this device allow your coffee connoisseur some room for experimentation and provide some kind of analogue experience as well?

Have you given any consideration to how the consumer can make their own blends?

As the core tech uses a hugely mass produced item that is also mfg for a very attractive price point some reality’s must be faced. Any factory to give good pricing that is already in the business of production of microwave devices will not want to stray very far from their production process and assembly line. If the new design does require major retooling the NRE (non recuring expenses) are huge and impact the total capital the start-up must raise. If the factory is willing to eat the NRE it’s generally only on the basis of a huge pre order commitment with the LC’s (letters of credit) to back it up. So the final design must work within the existing product materials and assembly. This also help in shorting up the approval process from UL and FCC, a time to market and front end cost aspect.

On how the Ethiopian ceremony correlates to the “thing” at its core is simple, fresh roasted, fresh brewed by a knowledgeable person using premium beans. It also points out that a perfectly uniform roast is less important (and in fact reduces flavor complexity) than fresh roasting and immediate consumption. In our case the device contains with in the expert system, and the recommendations for roasting on the packet are derived from direct experience with that load of beans and the experienced tasters opinion. These 2 in conjunction in effect put that expert and that source in your kitchen (office) 24/7.
The end user can of course run any roast profile they wish, experiment to their hearts content however given that we have access to coffees from over 70 countries and will be offering a very wide range its unlikely that you will have something we don’t and if you do, let us know we might just package them up and test them for purchase and offering to others. As to custom blends, there is nothing preventing you from blending post roasting, and that provides some options in that one of your selections might be very dark roast, the other a very light roast for a broader taste profile. In some of our profiles we in fact use the tech to achieve a controlled mixed roast for that very reason, a broad and complex flavor profile.
For me the goal has always been to bring that wonderful experience to the masses, and its been a bit of a bother to do so but finally we are there. Great coffee is one of the joys of life, and should be enjoyed at its optimum state not some sanitized, homogenized, corporate, branded gunk that is foisted off on folk now.

I can see where you have an opportunity to capitalize on this though in the sense of building a community / brand following.

Speaking of brand, are you looking to have this product licensed or will this be something from ZF Industries? I also wonder have you given any thought about what other coffee related products you would develop to create a coffee roasting suite, so to speak? Like a grinder, press, other machines etc?

The reason I ask is that if this will be your first coffee product / brand it can set the precedence of a design language for other related products.

This will be a new enterprise, the existing coffee companies are just real happy the way are (hey making 1000% profit on green to roast) so are not real interested in a disruptive tech. This is of course until you get market traction then whee its pretty girl at the dance time.
The starter kit will come in a couple of “flavors” that include in some cases with a burr grinder, propeller grinder, press pot, drip machine etc. These for start will be just re branded existing product that we know are of good enough quality to sell. We are more about the coffee’s, because so much of the brewing/grinding side are pretty highly developed. In time we might go with a custom designed suite, but core things first.

There is some really great conversation going on in this thread especially as a student who’s never brought a product to market there’s some really enlightening stuff; I’m just wondering now that we’ve all expressed our views and zippy has explained his vision of this, maybe it is time to revisit your initial question

I guess it seems like a lot of the conversation is heading away from this initial question. Zippy it seems like you have the engineering down, you have defined your market, you have your potential manufactures and suppliers, your business plan is set; you don’t seem to be wavering on any of these things based on our feedback, and you seem pretty content with the design direction you’re heading in, so what’s next in this conversation?

For a student this is a perfect example of real world design within constraints. The constraints are physics package, price point, and the material suite (stamped welded steel, injection molded plastic). With the knowledge that counter space is at a premium for most kitchens just globing on trail-fins and chrome bumpers wont work. So will a simple cube with a angled back control pane be the best solution, are there others, is the pure form of the cube superior. Welcome to the real world where your hands are bound by cuffs of time and money.

I think we all understand the reality of constraints. The thing is, a question was posed and lots of discussion generated, but the replies still seem to be “ya, well, it doesn’t matter, everything is fine”.

Given the constraints, I think more exploration and solutions could be found that would still work with manufacturing realities, costs, etc. and better serve those needs of the consumer. After-all, design, as opposed to engineering is supposed to be consumer focused, right? It is also about generating a wide variety of concepts to explore. Seems like the case here is that you found one solution and are sticking to it.

What about a top loading door? what about toggle or analog switches? what about a really nice mechanism for locking the door that would engage with a nice “thunk”? what about making it a cylinder so matches other table top devices? what about separating out some components for a smaller footprint in one place and larger in another?

I suggest to take another look at that Rancilio Silva I keep mentioning. It’s pretty basic construction (SS sheetmetal with maybe a cast base), looks like it uses all stock knobs and switches, and has enough enigma to it that it feels like a pro device to appeal to the craft of coffee making.

As an aside, I’d also wonder about the microwave technology… Isn’t roasting about smoke and fire? maybe something could be done with a stovetop device with similar ease of use that would feel more “real”. Like those Bialetti pressure pot coffee makers?

Just some thoughts, FWIW.

R

Good points, the top load is problematic as the packets are 10’’ long so with the 10" height of the unit your making it pretty tight for any counter top that has cupboards above. I am all for some other control interface, would love a couple of nice knobs with good solid detentes like stereo equipment of old. Moving bits around really don’t do much for the foot print as the biggest ones have to be cooled and share a fan. You could build the panel into the door I suppose. I like the idea of a good locking mechanism, has to conform to UL guidelines for interlocks though. As to roasting being about fire and smoke, its not, commercial roasters are basically big convection ovens, no fire involved and if you used a stove top system you are back to guess and hope roasting or a hobby not a kitchen appliance. Roasting is about energy transfer to pyrolysis and caramelize not about fire.

Zippy,

thank you for discussing all that in open public, but I am sorry, I do get the notion,
that you’re so deep into the details already (and the constraints) that lay in there, that
the big picture gets a little pixled.

I do understand now why you are going with a microvave oven.

The device that you are creating for me bears a good resamblance with a bread machine
for private use:

Those appliances were a trend during the 80ies wave of “bio food”, when every mother
had to find the absolute “purest” food for her chidren. So these things were created for
a similar audience under similar production constraints. If this is the road to go you might
have closer look into that category to find some inspiration of what might work for your
product and what might not.

But, for me it is not about the form language here. In my oppinion building a coffee roaster
is more about designing the experience or “stage” that the action takes place on, than about
finding the “right” knob.

But as we have discussed all that in reasonable depth already I wish you the best of look
in creating a coffee roaster unit within the design brief that exists.

Yours mo-i

P.S.: One last question: I have a reasonably big kitchen, but the countertop is already
cluttered, why can’t I use the microvave, that I already have waiting there?

To answer your last question I will use a analogy, can a surgeon remove your appendix with a hatchet, yes, maybe but certainly not well, a purpose designed scalpel is in order. In detail your home microwave ovens cooking chamber is not properly sized has unknown areas of hi and low energy and finally the microprocessor is not loaded with the unique and proprietary roast profiles. Microwaves are a energy delivery method, and your home oven is designed to generally heat items that have relatively high percentage of water in their makeup, coffee beans are under 10%. In sum ours is specifically designed and developed to roast coffee, perfectly and quickly, it is a surgeons scalpel, not a hatchet. Your view of the bread machine is not bad, the allure of “good” is always there, too bad the bread machines didn’t live up to their promise in that the bread they produced was neither good or even easy.

There will always be a difference of opinion, I for one find digital music a waste of time, its portability versus sound quality and depth not of value but others prize it. I prefer analog, with its ritual so I am not immune to the concept but realistic as to what has succeed and failed in the past. So in the end there is this, any product must first work and be offered to the market for its determination as to value. There are often mid course corrections, but first things first, a home coffee roaster that is as easy and intutive to operate as a toaster, and that we have achieved.