okay, "which" ProE

It couldn’t be as simple as just buying proE and starting up the learning curve. It seems one must know “which” ProE to start from.

I’m an old ‘board guy’; you want conceptual sketches and renderings, I can do those; 3D manually lofted surfaces, I can do that; mechanical design, drafting and geometric tolerancing, I can do that…

There are so many"ProE" products that it’s confusing. Could someone give me a teeny, tiny, hint where to start?


The Foundation package should be all you need.

definatly foundation package.

get in touch with ptc or the local distributor and they should be able to give you a 30 day trial CD if your still unsure

I dont think that foundation includes any ‘3D surface’ creation tools

well it does - extrude, revolves, sweeps but not ‘n-sided’ surface creation, you may not need this at this stage but be aware of it and the cost to upgrade to include this.

As chappo81 suggests get in touch with PTC or a reseller and take it from there. If they demo stuff ensure they are clear what modelling capability you get for your money. ie you could ask them just to demo ‘Foundation’ and at the end ask what surfacing would give you…

Oh and Wildfire 3 is the latest version…

Actually, when I bought 2001, Foundation didn’t include the Advanced Surfacing Module which I needed. So I paid for that. But on upgrade to Wildfire I learned that those features had migrated down into the Foundation package. So iirc, the Foundation package now includes all the surfacing features once only available in the original (non-“Style”) Pro/E. Since PTC added the new, built-in, ID-friendly(?) surfacing features, it’s changed things to stay ahead of packages like SolidWorks.

What they’ve done with WF3, I don’t know (as mentioned some time back, I had a problem with PTC and haven’t bothered to upgrade since). However, it’s probably safe to say that they didn’t remove those surfacing features after including them.

In the end, read the fine print.

Foundation. They were running a special a while back where you could pick an add-on package for cheap. If you’re going to be doing anything other than prismatic parts, I suggest you look into the ISDX package. It will make things a little easier.

That said, I did my last project without ISDX, just Pro/E surfacing tools. There wasn’t a square corner on the part and it worked fine, but a little tedious.

If you need help configuring your setup, let me know and I’ll lend a hand. It can be confusing at first.

I talked with PTC this morning. From the pdf they supplied:

Foundation Advantage features:
• Solid modeling
• Detailed documentation and 2D drafting
• Technical and freeform surfacing, including new Warp technology
• Sheetmetal modeling
• Weld modeling
• Assembly modeling
• Data interoperability
• Import data repair
• Model verification
• Design animation
• Kinematics
• Real-time photorendering
• Built-in connectivity

Technical Surfacing
• Create any type of surface, including those with continuous
curvature, for the most aesthetically demanding applications
• Create and trim surfaces using tools like extrude, revolve,
blend, and sweep
• Perform surface operations such as copy, merge, extend,
and transform
• Explicitly define complex surface geometry
• Quickly develop and refine the most demanding
dimension-driven geometry
Revolutionary New “Warp” Technology
• Make universal deformations of selected geometry in 3D
• Dynamically scale, reorient, taper, stretch, bend,
and twist the model
• Apply deformations both to native
Pro/ENGINEER models as well as to
any geometry imported from
other CAD tools

If I order Wildfire, for $5,000, they have an introductory incentive running now that includes one of the eleven add-on modules; advanced assembly; structural/thermal simulation; blah, blah, blah; Interactive Surface design…

They’ll set up an on-line product demo with Foundation and Interactive Surface Design. Any specific questions I need to ask?

Next question: Pro/CONCEPT … anyone using it?

Foundation and ISDX is the perfect combo for most users in the consumer products industry.

I know they’ve made some changes to the foundation package. If you do multipart assemblies (I know I know, who doesn’t?) be sure to ask:

Can I do simplified reps?
Can I use skeleton models in a Top-Down assembly?

The answer should be “yes.” Last time I talked to the sales guy he told me that these features were included in WF2, but you should verify. They used to be included only in the Advanced Assembly package.

If he answers no to either of those questions, let’s talk about what you’re going to be doing with Pro/E. You might need the assembly module more than the ISDX module.[/list][/list]

I got the ISDX package. I just don’t find myself using it. Although I’m probably a bit of a power user.

Example of one piece I did years ago (Pro/E rev 18 I think): Example {edit - fixed link}

Long before ISDX. You can do plenty with Foundation all by itself. I personally wouldn’t get ISDX until I heard a chorus of corporate IDers swearing by it.

re ISDX I agree with csven you can probably get by without this and its worth remembering while it’s ‘free’ you would have to pay maintenance on it, but you could ditch that after the first year.

another thing to check about the assembly licence is the merge function, this a good way of creating a ‘master surface’ model of all interacting components/surfaces (you get to see what the overall form looks like) and then using this surface data as the basis for the individual parts, adding more detail as required.

Perhaps someone can help out here - I really just use the thing and dont get caught up in the admin side of things so again this function might be a given in WF2/WF3, but my feeling is that this is more useful than ISDX.

I appreciate all the input guys, this is going to be a major purchase and since I’m not versed AT ALL in ProE it is certainly intimidating. I went, blissfully, down the 3d/solid modeling AutoCAD ‘AME’ > ‘Inventor’ > '‘3d Studio’ path years ago and did not enjoy the outcome of that experience at all.

Csven, as a rank amateur ProE user (with 25+ years of other industrial design experience) I need to concentrate on learning how to’surface’ complex shapes. Given my level of experience would you still suggest that I do NOT need ISDX? I need to get up tp speed quickly do you think it would lessen the ‘surfacing’ learning curve if I bought ISDX? As designers we all think in terms of ‘form’ and ‘assembly’ so those are obviously an important capabilities … piping and cable assembly; not so much.

At the risk of copyright infringement, etc., etc., etc. the following was provided by PTC. It outlines the ‘basics’ of each of the extended applications available with ProE. I’d appreciate any (more) comments you all care to note.

Note that the first module; Advanced Assembly states, “… Plan the framework of an assembly with skeleton models.” I will have to specifically ask if ‘skeleton models’ are able to be done with the ‘Foundation Package’ (in other words, would buying the ‘Advanced Assembly’ module be redundant).

The text…

ProE Advanced Assembly
• Plan the framework of an assembly with skeleton models to enable
true top-down design
• Facilitate concurrent engineering by publishing key geometry
features to multiple design teams simultaneously
• Easily design alternate product configurations based upon
customized input variables
• Create fully-associative assembly process planning documentation

ProE Structural and Thermal Assembly• Work with easy-to-use, native simulation and analysis tools
• Perform linear simulation and analysis, as well as
non-linear analysis
• Eliminate time wasted on data translation by having full
associativity between the model and the analysis

ProE Routed Systems Manager
• Create multi-disciplined schematic design within a single UI
• Optimized to drive cabling and piping within Pro/ENGINEER
• Customize design checks & schematic automation through JAVA API

ProE Interactive Surface Design
• Innovate with advanced freeform surfacing tools
• Rapidly design highly aesthetic products
• Integrate freeform surfaces with parametric surfacing tools

ProE Cabling Design• Automate the creation of wire harnesses based on schematics
• Work with a full toolset, such as auto-routing, to speed harness
design and eliminate prototypes
• Use the customizable library of standard connectors to accelerate
design speed and re-use

ProE Piping Design
• Automate the creation of pipe routing based on Piping and
Instrumentation Diagrams (P&IDs)
• Full toolset for Industrial, Tubing, and Flexible piping applications
• Comprehensive suite of tools to ensure manufacturability

ProE Prismatic and MultiSurface Milling• Generate NC programs for CNC milling machines, 2-axis or 4-axis
CNC lathes, and 2-axis and 4-axis CNC wire EDM machines
• Create a framework of step-by-step manufacturing instructions with
a unique process-planning/route sheet tool
• Enjoy associativity between the model and NC toolpath

ProE Behavioral Modeling
• Optimize designs while considering multiple design objectives
• Assess model sensitivity with ease
• Leverage the power of spreadsheets to drive different product

ProE Mechanism Dynamics
• Analyze static, kinematic, and multi-body dynamic motion to
virtually test and verify product behavior
• Model non-linear motors and springs, synthesize cams,
and create motion envelopes
• Analyze real-world influences such as friction, gravity,
and impact forces

ProE NC Sheetmetal
• Optimize toolpaths to reduce scrap, save on material costs,
and shorten lead time
• NC programming for turret punch presses, contouring laser/flame
machines, nibbling, and shearing
• Automatic tool selection for punching, forming, and nibbling

make sure it can do the surfaces you want to create. i tried pro a while back (2001) to see how it works. the surfaces i wanted to create either didn’t happen or came out different from what intended. it didn’t have control points either.

from what i found out talking more in detail with those who used pro back in 2001 it is a tool usually for large assemblies (10000-80000 parts) since it can handle it better as far as speed and data management is concerned. the people i talked to designed component parts for lockheed and were teaching pro in san jose, mainly solid modeling / sheet metal. they didn’t think it can do high-end surfacing.

i don’t know how it is now but i assume it’s built on the same kernel.

the best would be to go to a reseller and get a demo. but before doing so try to get yourself a bit familiarized with the surfacing commands through the student versions.

ufo, I can definitely understand your experience with Pro/E surfacing. It’s not exactly straightforward. In the “Advanced Surfacing” training class you spend about 80% of the time learning how to build up your curves and datums that define the surface extents, then about 20% of the time actually building the surfaces.

After you get the datums dialed you will find that Pro/E’s surfacing capabilities are quite robust. It can maintain G2 continuity across surfaces if you set your datums correctly.

The control points are there, but you have to know where to look for them.

If you’re really interested, I can post up an example or 2.

probably lmo would be interested! :slight_smile:

i use catia for automotive/architectural design and solidworks for fast ID projects right now so i’m not switching to pro because both catia and SW are dassault products and i have no problems using either of the two.

also, the iges data is transfered accurately,which is a plus.

You anticipated 2 of my questions :wink:

Does Catia handle surfaces well? Can you maintain G2 continuity where you need to?

I learned Catia in college and boy do I miss it. What is the pricetag roughly? Is it still up in the 10’s of thousands bracket?

the aca module gives you all the continuity options you can have on a surface plus control points. the datums in catia can also be created or modified depending how you set them up. actually catia has a bunch of tools to automate datums like setting them normal to a curve or other stuff. you need a fast computer though.

the best part about catia is the way its feature tree is designed. it’s one of those programs in which you learn every command works like a tool rather than a function.

so it’s like depending on what you want to design you create the environment for it even though they already have designated workbenches.

it’s best to learn how to jump from one workbench to the other without losing focus. it’s a bit difficult if you don’t like the way creative engineers work in their labs! very versatile yet requires a high intuitive input to get things to an acceptable level.

in short the better you understand a process the faster you can utilize the software considering you know what each tool does!

i’m not sure what the pricing is in US, but here in iran all the cad softwares are almost free since nobody uses these softwares for design. they just open files in them then make iges files for cnc!

the only cad software that has an official sales dept in iran is autocad since a lot of architectural firms use it. but even that you can buy on a sidewalk for 2 bucks!

Uh, wow. I thought Designworks was in USA. Did you move the operation to Iran?

Sounds very similar to the tools available in Pro/E though Catia is probably easier to use.

i’m setting up an office in tehran-iran right across from NEC, siemens, and LG offices. i got around 1400 sqft, and located in a business area with access to tehran subway system, international airport, and major highways. 1 hr away from famous ski resorts in alborz mountains and 2 hrs away from caspian sea.

it might not be as great as BMW’s designworks (eventhough i know you probably joked about it), but hey atleast i enjoy the time here since there’re no auto designers in iran and there’re like three major auto makers who prefer to work with a local design house.

irankhodro is no 16 (selling $6 billion/yr) and saipa no 17 auto maker in the world rankings.

catia is definitely set up for surfacing/engineering.