Not necessarily good news about the job market...

“Product management is a ‘next year’ job where a lot of the fruits of your labor are not reflected in a day or a week, but in a quarter or a year,” he says. “If you like quickly seeing results, this is probably not the job for you.”

That is how I’m feeling at the moment. Working on 8-10 products at once, some have been going since Feb/March and look like they won’t be finished by Christmas. Some days it feels like treading water.

seriously, product design managers on average, earn more than dentists and senior sales executives? I’d love to believe that but it’s a struggle. :frowning:

Not to rain on the parade, but Product Managers and Design managers are not the same thing. Product managers are usually business or marketing focused senior execs who are responsible for laying out requirements for a portfolio of products. I personally have never met one who didn’t have a background in something related to either engineering or marketing.

Yeah its like when I was talking to some people in finance and I was telling them I was a product designer- to which they replied ’ oh really? we have a bunch of product designers’ - loans are products and are designed- funny thing is that those product designers can afford the cars we wish we were designing

None of those things on the list have anything to do with design. I think you are all reading something into the titles that isn’t there.

Product Management Directors are more typically high level business/marketing positions.

Also note, Directors are much higher level than Managers.


Yeah…you’re going to be poor like the rest of us unless you invent the Snuggie.


Or OxyClean…

No offence, but anyone who posts on here more than a few times a week must have a bit of time on their hands. I haven’t seen Marc Newson posting on here recently.

If you want the big bucks you will need to work your ass off to come up with something that will sell by the millions. 90% perspiration and all that. Nothing worth having comes easy, etc etc…

Having said that I am working in a job which doesn’t really challenge me intellectually. I think it might be time to get my home workshop up and running so I can build gizmo’s and widgets.

Not sure what this is supposed to allude to. Care to expand?



Anyone who spends excessive time on online forums probably isn’t working that hard.

Hard working people often achieve more success and better positions.

If you want to be successful like Marc Newson, get off the internet and work your ass off rather than complaining about how much money your’e not earning.

It’s just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

This strikes me as inappropriate bro.

Maybe people that are contributing positively on the forums are actually working harder and getting smarter.


Nice point David.

Its a situation we can all relate to these days, whether personally or via a friend or relative. And these days social networking is the way to learn, Core is that network for many people with and without jobs.

My comment about being poor forever was mostly sarcastic, but statistically speaking the amount of designers who are filthy rich are a very small handful. Just like any other bell curve most of us earn somewhere in the middle and some people are working 80 hrs a week to bring in $30k. (See other members thread about earning $15/hour)

Everyone spends excessive time doing certain things. Some people spend hours a day at the gym, some watch TV, and Some just type faster than others which makes forum whoring a good deal breaker.

I could tell the story about how being a forum jockey helped me start my own business which paid for my first new car, build my first physical product, introduced me to ID and got me to where I am today.

Things are what you make of them. There’s a reason many people here spend what time they do have reading and communicating with other designers and not on watching a monkey hump a frog…at least not till lunch time.

I don’t think you know the people you are addressing on these forums. There are some VERY successful and VERY talented designers in these forums. For you to make these arrogant nasty comment is ridiculous. Contributing to an online forum in your off time or at night like I am doing is not being lazy and like mentioned above will make you stronger. What I don’t get is I have seen you posting quite frequently lately. Does that mean you aren’t working your ass off? Hmmmmmm.

In fact I would argue that being an active member of a forum like C77 can be very positive. This is a great place to create contacts, learn new things, and go to for questions. There are some very successful regular posters here as stated.
Being successful in your job doesn’t mean you have to work day and night without ever taking time for yourself. Yes, working hard is important but there is more to it.

I think some of the posts about money were just jokes. Being a professional IDer means you will make a good living AND you get to be a designer, it’s a pretty good gig.

I find it very important to get out to design events, keep an eye on design blogs, meet up with other creative types.

And yes, excess by definition is “too much.” So ANYTHING in excess is a bad thing.

Yeah. That is what’s going on.

I’m at work and have a had a lot of time waiting for clients to get back to me or my boss to approve my work, so I have been posting on here a bit while I wait.

Cyberdemon has a good point that most of you guys are in the US, so when I’m at work, you’re posting on here at home. Fair comment.

I apologise for offending people. I don’t think I am some high and mighty designer who is superior because I don’t spend time on forums. I am on here right now… at work.

I just saw what looked like another whinge thread and put in my 2 cents.

Personally, I’m super busy, between being a creative director at one of the largest global design consulting groups, and doing my own work (designing a track day car right now for fun…) I have plenty to do. Here is why I use c77:

when c77 first came online in 1995, I instantly got that this would replace ID magazine and the IDSA. One is down… Very few designers older than a certain age really understand that. I think they still might be focused on the old world of print and other one way communications. I’m getting more and more ink in press and books (3 or 4 more coming out this year) but this is the medium I feel has the most impact.

As a student I feeling how difficult it is to connect to experienced professional designers as a student and a young designer starting out. Maybe there was a visiting lecturer or critic to our school, but outside of that, no real contact. Knowing things like c77, ID Sketching (those guys are busy too) and PDForums were the future, I told myself that I always wanted to be easily accessible to others, sharing my opinions and what I learned as well as learning from others like CG, Richard, IP, and essentially the entire group of us who later were asked to become moderators because of our contributions.

As a professional, I really crafted my voice on here. Many of you who have been on here for a long period of time I’m sure remember the way I posted 7,8 years ago. Much more crass, and less understanding. I honed my message here, and that helped me to be a better mentor at work, which helped me to be promoted faster.

One of the things my current employer likes is how much I am out in public espousing these ideas, so it is encouraged.

I also use it as a healthy break. After or between tasks, I might pop in and make a quick post. No different than reading a quick article in ID magazine would have been in another time. Instead of watching the youtube video, I’m here.

I’ve recruited several people into Nike through these forums, and am now doing that at frog. Don’t think DesignFabulous’s portfolio amongst others have not made the circuit here and been discussed in recruitment conversations!

Contributing to these forums on a consistant basis has been one of the best things I have ever done for my career or my person. No matter where I go around the world, people know it, I get to meet designers I would have never been exposed to, I get to learn from all of you, I get to give back.

My thoughts exactly. Love your quote :slight_smile:

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