it’s not a question of sketching on a pad or doing cad . it’s a question of precision time investment and how you arrive at it.
I just posted something that might be relevant. Can read it here - Communicating With The Brain | reBang
Precision time investment:
Sketching…Is and always will be the fastest way to crank out the first and second round deliverables, as well as ideas during brainstorming and research activities.
From personal experiance CAD should never be attempted until the overall design direction and form is determined. If you jump into CAd too soon the design sufferes based on the softwares capabilities and how prolithic the CAD designer is.
Great designs begin in the mind and are developed through sketching, then finalized through CAD. Even in the fast moving market place of today. Well atleast when working with companies who are actually doing R&D and not just pumping out landfill fodder.
I think there is no doubt that with cad skills one can get a job easily.
I remember a classmate who couldn’t sketch or talk smoothly…and
design concepts that this person came up with weren’t that appealing either.
But, knowing all of his own weaknesses, he lived in 3D lab at school.
By the time he graduated, he was the first to get a job at T**g*e for 55,000.
I don’t doubt that cad skills can get you a job but the question is how far
can it take you?
But as a CAD Jockie not a designer…
Designers are thinkers and problem solvers, sketching is ourmeans of communicating rapidly. CAD is only our tool to communicate to engineers the design intent of our idealized surfaces, and to work out the final manufacturing details with them, not to sit and never leave the CAD machine.
No doubt CAD can get you in the door, however all of the designers that I know who have been hired in the last year at a couple of large name firms know not a single CAD program. Nor will they ever probably need to use one, unless they descide to. That is what the part time CAD Designers are for in the respective firms. India also has great CAD factories billing out at $8-$16 hr.
Designers who think they can live in the CAD software and still do thier job are living a lie, as they are not designing nor are they playing a vital or sustainable role in the corporation, they are easily sourced overseas.
CAD is a tool, and nothing more. It helps you get a foot in the door in the aspect that knowing it makes rou a more rounded candidate if the firm does their own initial CAD. However the most important skill is problem solving and thinking outside the box, then communicating realtime to non-designers in the room. Lets see anyoune on CAD model up configuration Ideas on the fly and keep up with the ideas as they come through a brainstorming or focus group session.
i don’t understand what you mean by prolithic?
anyway i think original and creative thought requires the designer to initiate cad models as soon as there’s an idea or concept. to waste time on sketching or any other extra visual work is simply putting your time in trash can these days. maybe 20 years ago it was valid, and that’s because design methodology was pretty much standard and configured and always long before the so called design was to come out; meaning that if you were designing a product the engineering was pretty much decided out as a proven platform and it was not changed or little changed for a long time, but right now the variety and availability of materials, abundance of technological input, and a competetive market creates a very complex, multi-route, yet advanced environment and that’s why you need advanced tools for analysis and as it goes forward you should be able to improvise, remodel, and innovate.
just compare today’s wireless products to the old telephones everybody got from phone company 20 years ago. the only variety they had was color. there’s just no comparison in the injection molding variety that’s available in today’s wireless products. every company tries to come up with a new tiny extrusion, ribbing, or loft that would make their product not only look different but better when in use. there’s no way the designer can come up with the whole detailed idea including the engineering and manufacturing before hand. that claim is ridiculously funny.
also a lot of innovation happens when you start solving problems which were ignored before in the process because there was no modeling tool for analysis and through it reinventing modes that streamline the design and engineering processes which go hand in hand even in the simplest products. it’s no wonder all the competitive companies have their emphasis switching from style to analysis. because today, companies make money on products that are innovative and not just something that looks visually or conceptually designed.
there’re so many examples i don’t think i need to get into details.
so UFO,
you are saying " the CAD part of industrial design is , in fact,
an industrial designer’s MAIN focus of work nowadays ? "
I guess it depends on the work and company… but I always understood
that we design and cad work is handed to a cad specialist…
But, of course, I have seen and been in situations where such division isn’t
really true.
I am just confused sometimes that while I believe concepts matter , the
reality isn’t…more often than not, all people care about seem to be cool
photoshop renderings and 3d modeling.
whatz your take on that?
what i’m saying is that right now cad is better for analysis than sketching, specially for complex issues. the more you ignore it the harder it’ll be next time you design because the consumer will not wait for you to decide.
we live and work in a time competetive industry where everyone’s looking to streamline the process while adding value through innovative rethinking cycles. if you do some concept then take it to this cad guy who has no idea how to innovate or rethink the process you’re actually losing the chance to create a better product.
my personal opinion is that a very good rendering helps in many ways to bring out your styling skills, or rather bring the viewer closer to what the product might look like in reality. but is that the real complete worked out design as the consumer expects it to be?
i believe during the last century or so we have witnessed a bell curve. design starting from a very mechanical foundation, moving into form, getting noticed as designed objects (form follows function), slowly moving towards variety of form, function and style , market driven consumerism of function and style, innovative products that focus more on functionality specially multi tasking and process speed,…
i don’t know what will happen next but i’m sure next generations of designers will have difficulty reading sketches just as much as we have difficulty using the stairs instead of the elevators. 
I understqand, however by doing Alias for the last 7years, there is a great value to be placed with one who knows ID and one who doesn’t especially when it applies to design. Being able to problem solve with surfdace is not an easy task for someone who has no clue about design aesthetic. With a design background you become the “jury and the executioner” I had a real issue at first after finishing school with a design degree, learned clay modeling, and alias. Now the executioner can pick which axe to swing and at who
repeat. repeat. read this long ass thread about skething and CAD
From my own experience in the UK, in the 2 companies I’ve worked for since graduating, CAD pretty much IS the design process. That’s not to damn it: if you’re proficient in solid & surface modelling software, you can use it right from the initial concept stages, even use it as a kind-of sketching tool if you like. Even if the models aren’t accurate or workable, it gives the impression to investors/office visitors/people the company’s trying to impress that you’re further on in the design process than you really are.
It had almost reached the stage where if I showed a hand-drawn sketch to a manager, he’d look slightly worried at it, and worry why I hadn’t done it in SolidWorks. Almost like “we’ve paid for all this equipment and you’re still doing little thumbnail sketches?”
Now I don’t know whether that’s good or bad. What I do know is, in a number of cases, because we’d started out doing the models in CAD before really doing much sketch thinking/modelling, we got trapped into a ‘path dependent’ mindset where we felt we had to continue developing the CAD models we were working on, rather than tearing it up and starting again, even where there were better ideas.
THAT may be the major problem with any tool where it’s taken such a time investment to use it: you’re reluctant to start again, whereas with a bit of paper you expect to start all over again, frequently.
If the entire design process is CAD, you are not functioning as a CAD Designer/Design Engineer.
To UFO, the Analasis is not nor should it be a key strength of an Industrial Designer. Innovation in your definition can not come from a solo jack of all trades (aka expert in none" designer sitting in from of a CAD station. Instead innovation comes from the efficient realtime interaction of a development team consisting of experts in their respective fields; Mechanical engineers, PHDs in biomechanic, Psycologist, Sociologist, Anthropologist, Marketing, Branding, Materials Engineers, and Manufacturing Engineers. In this model the designers role and key responsibility is to rapidly visualise the problems and possible solutions as the meetings/reviews take place…sketching.
From a time/talent managment perspective this is far more efficent than the solo designer filling all roles, unless as I stated you are working for Me2 companies simply trying to knock off the market leaders. In terms of time we can average 6-8 months for a total product launch from initial planning meeting to launching the add campaign to product on the tradeshow floor.
CAD is involed at the beginning, but not by the designer…the engineers are far mor efficent and proficient when it comes to simulation and analisys. It is what they are trained to do, not us.
If the entire design process is CAD, you are not functioning as a CAD Designer/Design Engineer.
To UFO, the Analasis is not nor should it be a key strength of an Industrial Designer. Innovation in your definition can not come from a solo jack of all trades (aka expert in none" designer sitting in from of a CAD station. Instead innovation comes from the efficient realtime interaction of a development team consisting of experts in their respective fields; Mechanical engineers, PHDs in biomechanic, Psycologist, Sociologist, Anthropologist, Marketing, Branding, Materials Engineers, and Manufacturing Engineers. In this model the designers role and key responsibility is to rapidly visualise the problems and possible solutions as the meetings/reviews take place…sketching.
From a time/talent managment perspective this is far more efficent than the solo designer filling all roles, unless as I stated you are working for Me2 companies simply trying to knock off the market leaders. In terms of time we can average 6-8 months for a total product launch from initial planning meeting to launching the add campaign to product on the tradeshow floor.
CAD is involed at the beginning, but not by the designer…the engineers are far mor efficent and proficient when it comes to simulation and analisys. It is what they are trained to do, not us.
Now I don’t know whether that’s good or bad. What I do know is, in a number of cases, because we’d started out doing the models in CAD before really doing much sketch thinking/modelling, we got trapped into a ‘path dependent’ mindset where we felt we had to continue developing the CAD models we were working on, rather than tearing it up and starting again, even where there were better ideas.
THAT may be the major problem with any tool where it’s taken such a time investment to use it: you’re reluctant to start again, whereas with a bit of paper you expect to start all over again, frequently.
Precisly why jumping into CAD as a “design” or “Problem Solving” tools is so ineffective and detromental to the program. The first 2 deliverables should always be sketches, with sketch models to support. The sole purpose being to further push the brainstorming and what if discussions. If an early deliverable is too refined or polished the clients will feel as if they are finished concepts and be less willing to look at it as a work in progress.
…when cad was first coming on, circa 1980, everyone worried that the id profession was doomed…i guess maybe it was…seriously, when paper, markers and colored pencils were all i had, one solid concept sketch (and all the associated doodles) was about all i could get done in a 8-10 hr day…a rendering (todays 3d model) could take 3 days…a modelmaking drawing could take a week…now i get this done 4-5x faster (marketing gets 40-50 concepts rather than 10) and 90% of the drafting is done to boot…some still value the hand sketch because they want someone to document all of thier caffine induced brain farts during meetings (i have turned down job offers for this)…this ain’t id.
And the CAD Monkey Sitting in front of the CRT All day long butting in bosses, ribbs, and draft is?
3 days for a rendering, week for a model. No wonder CAD is faster for you.
Hand Sketch in painter → Illustrator Line Work → Photo Real Photoshop Rendering 2-3 hours tops.
Sketch model 3-4 hours
Presentation Primed Model 5-6 hours
Presentation Fully Painted and detailed model 16 hours
40-50 concepts…think not 40-50 slight variations on one concept is more like it.
Much rather be in on the product planning, consumer research, product spects, and initail ideation than playing CAD monkey anyday.
3 days for a rendering, week for a model. No wonder CAD is faster for you.
Hand Sketch in painter → Illustrator Line Work → Photo Real Photoshop Rendering 2-3 hours tops.
Sketch model 3-4 hours
Presentation Primed Model 5-6 hours
Presentation Fully Painted and detailed model 16 hours
40-50 concepts…think not 40-50 slight variations on one concept is more like it.
Much rather be in on the product planning, consumer research, product spects, and initail ideation than playing CAD monkey anyday. Especially when it entails skiing, snowboarding, or what ever activity/product use studies are involved. Blue Skies, fresh snow, and free lift ticked and equipment…Dell and Pro/E whats the choice
…renderings were multiple views w/cut-aways etc. because we couldn’t rotate our images…modelmaking drawings had to accomodate the engineering achitecture (all the component interfaces had to be worked out)…we made foam core or clay studies but only one model…i didn’t mean that i make 40-50 sketches for each and every project, just that i could in the time it took to make 10, 25 yrs ago…marketing may still only get 10 concepts sketches but they are the best and most varied of many more (more time to design/less time to draw).
Nice sig, Ofu. Where’d you get it?
the first responsibility of a designer is form/function analysis. sketching doesn’t even come close to cad. as i said sketching is only good for getting the basic wireframe.
whether a designer is working solo or in a team it’s much smarter on a single PC or a networked office to do things in cad. for several reasons:
1- data is always backed up and availabe on file to everyone.
2- it’s readable, has dimensional value, material applied, texture defined + recommendations and notes.
3- it can be updated, redesigned, scaled, even replicated in a few minutes if you have the tools.
4- you can email it in a second.
5- you can render it in a few minutes.
6- it takes less memory than a 2d photoshop file and it’s 3d.
7- it’s cheaper than paper, pen and markers.
designers are responsible for form/function from the very start. if you missed that part you’re not a designer, you’re a makeup artist.
first of all i have never seen any designer sketch right in front of a client but cad is virtual even if the client is a 1000 miles away. anyone in the right frame of mind would prefer brainstorming on a cad model even if it’s half finished than a sketch because you can modify it on spot. sketching just takes too long when it comes to developing ideas.