ID + real-time interactive 3D technology

Dear all,

We are very much interested in discussing the potential of real-time interactive 3D technology in the design process.

Please note that we do not refer to 3D solid modeling software. Instead, our fcous is on real-time interactive 3D visual content management authoring tools.

Using these authoring tools, no longer is general structure and form only being communicated about a 3D digital product. Instead, functional elements behave in response to user interaction, in a real-time format, via a 2D/3D graphical user interface.

For example, transparency changes to see interior components, color changes, text/audio information, or simulation controls to study assembly/disassembly procedures can be incorporated.

Thank you in advance for your interest and time.

Sincerely,

Juan Ramón Sánchez Velar, B.Sc., M.Sc.
Founder / Project Development Manager of Interactive 3D Spaces

Juan,

I did extensive research on exactly what you are taliking about last year. I found several companies trying to develope technology, with few succeding much past what VMRL gave us 10 years ago.
The exception i found was Viewpoint Rich Media. This is a fairy robust 3d player with as many bells and whistles as you could use. At the time, the interface was quite cryptic, but this allowed you to basicaly script in customization into betra releases of the player. It was nothing someone with basic HTML and XML skills couldnt handle.
We were using it to show designs and options to overseas clinets real time.

Looking at Viewpoint’s website now, it looks like the Micrsoftification of their tools may have stalled some of the creative ouput, but im sure you could find someone who still does it well.



Viewpoint Rich Media

i’ve played with PG’s ISB. wasn’t realtime authoring. just VR interactive. rendering is better. easy to use. but it’s not ID. it’s more interior design or architecture. wrong forum to discuss that stuff imo.

Hello YKH,

Unfortunately, ParallelGraphic’s Internet Space Builder is not the best option for I.D. since other commercial software are better suited for the design process (e.g. Alias Studio or Solidworks).

However, Internet Scene Assembler, also from ParallelGraphics, is an excellent choice to create real-time interactive 3D applications, once design/3D modeling phase is over. In this manner, one can showcase not only form/structure, but dynamic functional elements, interior structure, etc., of a 3D digital model.

Juan Ramón

ISA is nice too. they have a few nice products. but vrml standard is way old. PG still uses it i think. new X3D standard isnt final last checked and isnt even good enough. maybe the new universal format will be okay. maybe will get railroad job like when MS sat on X3D board.

still. this isnt ID related. they may be out there but dont know anyone using VR to design product. interactive content for ID might be ok for cars, trains, planes. big stuff. but not for many many things. virtual sculpting w/ force feedback, no-lag video and cause&effect animation isnt really here yet. i dont even use stuff available in Pro/E. give me foam. something to hold.

maybe first good RT stuff will be in the Doom3 game. it uses Flash for intereactive interfaces i think. you can design product (like a tablet PC). import into game. create interactive interface for it. link interface to gameworld. its a start.

Hello YKH,

Interactive content for I.D. is independent of object size. The focus is to identify what static (e.g. color) and dynamic (e.g. transparency, assembly/disassembly) information about a given product can be showcased using RTi3D technology + 2D/3D Graphical User Interface (GUI), to enhance capture and transfer of information, which a stand-alone 3D digital model can not provide.

VR product design is still far fetched, and my initial post does not pertain to this medium.

RTi3D productions with 2D/3D GUIs applied to I.D. can already be accomplished with Eon Studio and Quest3D.

To summarize, we envision the inclusion of RTi3D technology after design/3D modeling workflow process of product design.

Juan Ramón

We are very much interested in discussing the potential of real-time interactive 3D technology in the design process.

Please note that we do not refer to 3D solid modeling software. Instead, our fcous is on real-time interactive 3D visual content management authoring tools.

“real-time interactive 3D” for ID must be mostly about FORM. not color or transparency. new authoring tool must include tools to modify forms. Alias and Rhino and other ID 3D tools are NOT solid modelers. perhaps you didnt realize this. perhaps you meant discussion is not about any 3D modeling of any kind? solid or surface. and perhaps discussion is really to sell your software which is limited to color and transparency and assembly?

“Interactive content for I.D. is independent of object size.”

as long as goal of ID is to make products for use by consumer then i disagree. Real products have Real size. good 3D interactive must simulate Real Form and Size. in ID this is not independent. there can be no design process otherwise. only true if ALL form is ignored.

if what you want is feedback for how to create a tool, just ask. a Fake discussion is dishonest.

Hello YKH,

Our discussion focus of real-time interactive 3D for I.D. does not concentrate on the design and 3D modeling (solid or surface) stage.

Instead, our discussion focuses on using RTi3D once design and 3D modeling stages have been completed. As a result, we seek to discuss the inclusion of a followup new stage to showcase the functionality/features of a 3D product. Once again, object size does not dictate the relevance of this new stage for a given product.

Transparency, color, assembly/disassembly, and others, reflect some attributes that could be assigned to designed/modeled 3D digital model in this new stage.

Finally, we have no intention of selling software, and regret to read that any previous postings have induced a sense of dishonesty from our side. We have quoted software tools that showcase RTi3D demos for product visualization, only for discussion purposes, and to better assess the potential of RTi3D in the I.D. sector.

Juan Ramón

“Our discussion focus of real-time interactive 3D for I.D. does not concentrate on the design and 3D modeling (solid or surface) stage.”

then this discussion is NOT about the “potential of real-time interactive 3D technology in the design process” because as you now say it is for “once design and 3D modeling stages have been completed”. it is mainly about sales presentation of final product. ID is 1% color selection.

if we limit discussion to simple features, i prefer to use RT capabilities in modelers i already use to create CAD. many modelers have or will soon have RT shading language to show color/transparancy/texture/etc. some will use nVidia CG language. some will use other rendering engine like Lightworks. but even more, some modelers like Pro/E have more RT features. it can be used via internet. and already person in one place can see the model while another person somewhere else modifies shape. that is better and more important to Design Process.

not much to discuss. is there something special about keeping discussion so limited?

from what im hearing, this software could present products in a time-based manner showing how the product is interacted with…much like a 3d animation of a product showing its functionality/features; but combined interactivity possible with software like flash…sounds pretty cool to me…

“‘real-time interactive 3D’ for ID must be mostly about FORM. not color or transparency. new authoring tool must include tools to modify forms.”

ykh, i have no idea what you are talking about. You make no sense.

ok, if i am understanding correctly, i think you guys are talking about totally different topics…ykh is talking about real-time manipulation/working with 3d software; with simultaneous use of 3d model by different people at same time…the other guy is talking about interactive 3d product presentation…where users can experience the product by interacting with it via a virtual 3d interface…

“You make no sense.”

“ykh is talking about real-time manipulation/working with 3d software; with simultaneous use of 3d model by different people at same time”

very good. should add “3D SURFACING software” - VR started using NURBs which makes surface manipulation more viable. “interactive” means different things. not just 2D gui. 3D gloves to hold virtual object? VR goggles to view? valid questions. and “design process” means ALL of it - not just a specific area after the design CAD is done(!).

first post leaves ALL those options open.

took a while to figure out the thread title and first post are inaccurate.

do i make sense now or do i need to hold your hand?

either way, you should say sorry to juan for misunderstanding/miscommunication…design process is anything and everything involved in the creation and communication of ideas for various media…presentation of a product showing its features/functions interactively in a virtual 3d format COULD very well be a critical part of the design process…it is increasingly relevant to technology-based products where the design of the product’s interface/interaction cannot simply be shown in a still rendering…so juan’s first post about his ‘software/technology’ having potential in the design process is NOT inaccurate…

on the contrary, IDers on this board should receive apologies.

thread is titled “ID + real-time interactive 3D technology”. not SOME ID. not 2D GUI in RT 3D.

  • this is NOT true - “We are very much interested in discussing the potential of real-time interactive 3D technology in the design process”. he doesnt understand “process” if CAD work is as he says now completed. apparently he believes ID process is largely 2D graphics interfaces. what about golf clubs or pepper mills or lighting or game controllers or mops or toothbrushes or… ID is ALL those things.

  • this was misleading -“Please note that we do not refer to 3D solid modeling software.” he specifies Solid modeling. if discussing 3D, and developing software, i expect him to know difference between Solid and Surface…and specify Solid for a reason.

  • this comment leaves everything fair game - “Using these authoring tools, no longer is general structure and form only being communicated about a 3D digital product. Instead, functional elements behave in response to user interaction, in a real-time format, via a 2D/3D graphical user interface.” no longer…meaning, i thought, modify shape AND simulate function. sorry i thought this discussion was about “3D technology in the design process”…b/c this can already be done…“For example, transparency changes to see interior components, color changes, text/audio information, or simulation controls to study assembly/disassembly procedures can be incorporated”…like i said, even games will do it come May or June. pretty sure i can already embed interactive content in Maya with free plugins - then export as Shockwave.

hey. maybe he’s a nice guy. maybe he has some nice software to sell. but WHAT is the point of this thread? it makes no sense to me. all we’re supposed to discuss is what his software can do? nice way to spam the forum imo. unfair to do this and not buy advertising.

It sounds like you might want to do some research on gaming engines. Ykh is right, the Doom 3 engine will definately be one that you should look into, as well as the latest Half Life engine. Typically the developers of First Person Shooter titles will release world building tools with their game so that fans can create their own levels, weapons, items, etc. The engine allows you to interact with all of these things in real time. There are huge possibilities in the realm of consumerism as far as virtual shopping is concerned. But with these gaming engies you have to have someone learn how to manipulate them, and you’ll have to create and skin your 3D models geared towards the constraints of the gaming engine. However, those contraints are loosening up all the time. I’ve seen some demo footage of both the Half Life and Doom3 games, very very impressive compared to just a few (pixelated) years back.

D3 will ship with exporters for Max/Maya/LW. exporter for Blender out already. i’ll use Pro/E and Maya for models. i expect a tool will ship to make interactive Flash screens for ingame models. sound tools were spec’d by Trent Reznor. both included from what i read.

with just the game and Blender, you could design interactive kiosk then walk in and trigger screen and sounds which trigger model animation or even environment changes. expect gamers will do that. but i want to do it inside Maya so i can change model easily and dont have to export stuff; just dont have newer videocard for it right now. wonder if Wildfire 2 can do some of that? have to read up or ask. time for new machine.

@Greenman - you seen the Unreal 3 Engine demo? Virtual Displacement Mapping looks amazing. here’s 12mb shakycam video http://www.jamesbambury.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/unreal3_0002.wmv

for technical info this thread has technique i’m sure is same http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML/011292.html

may see Virtual DMapping in Doom3. hope we do.

soon it will all merge

one product one environment