I am sorry but ID-ers are waste of time and money.
Is beed three months working with 3 design firms to design a new product since we don’t have time to design ourselfs. End resoult after 10 reviews every revision is an obortion. They don’t have any clue how a plastic injection mold is buld, they don’t know hoew to avoid cam actions and complicated pating line in part design. Basically we wasted 3 months and more than 50K. “GOOD JOB” Useless profesion
I am sorry but ID-ers are waste of time and money.
Some IDers know those things but you have to be intelligent enough to figure out which ones do and which ones don’t. Blame yourself for wasting both time and money.
I never thought I’d say this, but maybe you should use an “IDer” to check your spelling.
That whay you are good at “Check Spelling”
Check your knoledge better than spelling!!!
Funny how Industrial Designers say the same thing about some other professions? I find myself doing much of the work of the marketing and engineering staff that I should not have to do. I do not mind too much because it gives me greater control in the process. Just because the team you worked with did give you much insight about processes, does not mean that the entire profession is incompetent of providing such solutions. Down the road when you try to work with ANYONE else, whether it is a lawyer or a mechanic, do your research. When you get a divorce you don’t go to a tax attorney do you?
I need to check my spelling too by the way…
That is why you hire an engineering firm or have engineers work with the ID folks. ID folks can offer up concepts and solutions and many have working knowledge of how parts are made but they are not ultimately the ones who handle that part in most cases. It is a push and pull compromise and revise process working with people of different expertise. IDers in general do the design as well as creative concepts. SOme are well versed in engineering but ultimately that is why you have engineers, either consultants or at the factory to make the final iteration of the desings work.
Who’s avoiding cam action these days?
Most of our tooling vendors prefer to do them over having to do engineering gymnastics. It seems to be a trend that our company has seen with doing 50 projects/year with multiple vendors. We just had a vendor put in 9 slides in a project to cut down on their assembly costs.
Something sounds fishy…
Did you set a tooling budget before starting the program? If a design consultancy knows that beforehand, they can put the right people on your program, or turn down the program if they do not have the experience.
Did you put your desire for simple tooling into the contract?
Did the design team have access to the tooling vendors?
Did you have a single point of contact on your side? Or were they taking direction from multiple people on your side.
Who picked the hard- to mold design?
Did you set up a stage/gate process to make sure that problems were discovered early in the process?
I hope that that 50K cost doesn’t include both design and tooling. That is not appropriate development money unless you are making flowerpots.
I’m not sure what you are looking for here. I have had bad experiences with engineers and marketing people, but I don’t go on their professional sites and make an insulting and broad generalization.
Answer these questions:
1- Did you research the firms to make sure they had the capabilities to do what you asked them to?
2- Did you make your expectations clear to the firms at the very beginning of the process?
3- Did you offer them a reasonable amount of time and money to satisfy your expectations?
4- Did you check in with the firm to ensure they where going down the correct path before valuable time and money was spent?
If you are looking for a constructive discourse to figure out how to select and work with an ID group, lets continue.
I could be wrong, but it sounds like you went to the hair cutters and told them to do something different, stopped them half way and said it was horrible.
Oh, now you are just being mean!
I do not know who you hired for you “project” (if you really had a project?) but my suggestion is next time, try to match your project to the appropriate design team/firm. I am also guessing that you went with the lowest priced firm. 50K for three months work? you should have been paying triple that - but I guess second rate designers do second rate work for second rate clients!
Their justification is:
“We are not an engineering firm”
We have hired them to design a finished product ready for manufacturing.
They had a tooling cost and guide lines such as:
As less parts for assembly as posssible.
As simple mold construction as possible.
Our company is a mold making and molding company.
So any other “IDIOT” that pretends to have cam actions in the mold to reduce the assembly time is giving an idiotic reason.
Basides the costs of building such a mold you have maintenance costs which in this case will go to 20% of the mold cost per year, downtime etc.
Intentionally inserting cam action on the mold does not justify the assembly cost. Higher the production higher the price of the mold (more cavities) higher the maintenance cost. higher downtime.
If IDers furnish an unfinished product design what is the need for them?
For concepts I will work with the pepole that are going to use the product.
As far as appeal I can hire a fashion designer.
I think this profesion is invented to trick people that are not engineers make tham belive that you are engineers, which you are not, and to trick engineers making them belive that you are artists which you are not.
Good invention for people that can’t find themself where to stand.
One leg in one side of the river and the other in the other side.
If a bridge doesen’t have good foundamentals in both sides of the river is going to collapse for sure.
The very first replay say: SOME IDers know. What does he mean with that the others have no clue.
You are trying to be a hybrid but it is not working. You are like those humans with undefined sex.
Please IDesr stop doing more damages define yourselfs either artists or engineers very few people can do both, you are becoming more and more every day.
“IDIOTS MOTHER IS ALWAYS PREGNANT”
My god- he came back. Thought he’d just rant and leave.
That’s what we love to do- trick molding firms. You caught us.
This thread is a joke right? Did he just call my Mom an idiot?
I’ll be happy to design your product for 50K. Give me a project brief and I’ll have it done in under 3 months!
I forgot to add that if indeed this is serious, what makes you think this single ID firm is representative of our entire profession? I’m truly sorry if some company did a crap job for you, but c’mon can’t we have a professional discussion about the situation?
i don’t think it would cost 50k and take three months to develop a single mold. they ripped him off.
–to the angry engineer–
Was this a product for a customer or is it one that you are developing in-house? Have you researched, designed, manufactured, and marketed products before- or was this the first for your company?
If so, how much did that development effort cost? Was it successful? Did it work with such low development costs? Why didn’t you repeat your original process again?
Was this a rush project? Would you usually use an unknown vendor with such a critical program?
This sounds more like a typical vendor problem unrelated to design. Another reason to use best practices.
This was e second version of our existing product. So we did not neded a concept, it was there. All what we needed was a manufacturable (moldable) design and adding some appeal on it.
We did not had time to do so because we were to busy. (but we ended up to do ourself anyway). The project needed more CAD and art work than invention.
The 50K is included time that we spent to fix their work. We designed al the 12 parts from begining. The only thing that we save somehow was the appeal.
How can you design a part without draft and pretend to be ready for molding?
How can you design a part that require 3 cam actions one of them inclined from the parting line (only because your appealhas to stay unchanged), or parting line that changes up and down for no reason?
It was worthy to spend around 15-20K reworking on this design because we saved ourselfs 100-150K in tooling costs.
My point is :
Why an IDer can give better concepts than an engineer?
Why an IDer can design better appeal procuts than an artist?