What if the chinese designer actually IS better than the American that is missing the job?
well if he is better than the American, he is grossy underpaid working in China.
There was a good article in the New York Times Tuesday about China’s economy. An auto factory worker in the U.S. costs GM about $55/hour (that’s including benefits, vacation, and other expenses), an auto worker in China costs 1.50/hour, and all medical benefits are provided courtesy of Chairman Mao.
And then we have the posts on page 14 of the hiring thread that discuss the fact that no self respecting US design firm should hire chinese designers… naturally, American firms don’t wish to design products for the China market, why they know better what works in China right?
Well Timf,
All i can say is good luck. From what i have heard, HK people are very good for squeezing every single cent of value from the buck they are going to pay you. 5 Days? Thats official, expected? 7Days, and 24hours. Why? Cos your boss will be working that way. Period. 
Things in asia move 2-3times as fast compared to product development schedule in the west
I’m really sorry, but the title of this thread, is quiet misleading, as it does not cover the whole picture.
LMr. 
Lingmeister - True on the thread title. Like newspapers I was looking for an eyecatcher. You do have to have some major experience for them to move you there.
5 days is official, and since the COO (my boss) is from Europe, I will receive a written contract with all of the terms in them. Agreed there will some overtime, but that happens here in the US as well. Where, besides France, are you forced to only work “X” number of hours.
Everything worth anything is worth a risk, don’t you think? I have many friends from all over the world, in Hong Kong, so I do have a safety net.
One of the missing quotients for working in HK is the culture - obviously it is important to enjoy the Chinese people, Aussies, Brits, LHD cars, humidity and Jackie Chan. When I was in HK we had a blast, but I can understand - even if the job was ideal for your skillset - it’s not for everybody. Watching a Man U game live at 3AM was pretty cool though.
I’d be intrigued by your comments on North Carolina versus Hong Kong.
North Carolina would have great countryside, low cost of housing, fishing, hiking, etc.
Hong Kong would be extremely urban.
How will you cope with the lack of outdoor life in Hong Kong?
What do you expect the difference will be in lifestyle from a 1600-2300 square foot home with trees and a garden and lawn to cut, to a 2 bedroom apartment of 750 square feet (a guess?).
I’m guessing a 750 square foot apartment is going to cost $2200 a month to rent or is it even more?
You still can get access to the “nature” in HK, but you got to travel.
I just came back from a weekend trip to NYC. I like the city, but cannot imagine living there. It will take so much trouble to get out of the city that it will feel like a prison.
You still can get access to the “nature” in HK, but you got to travel.
I just came back from a weekend trip to NYC. I like the city, but cannot imagine living there. It will take so much trouble to get out of the city that it will feel like a prison
You’re obviously a Hill Billy who hasn’t seen enough of the world.
The ‘real’ prison is being stuck way out in the sticks. I feel sorry for you inbreds… or should I say “boy ai shur feel sorry for yous folks”
Don’t u worry…I think He has been around the world a lot more than you do.
Can’t agreed more. Asian Inferior Complex is one the key factor here. Yeah so long as you are white, (not brown, half brown, semi brown, yellow, super yellow, black or half black or grey.
north american designers are hard workers too. i have pulled many blood sweat and tears and long nights and weekend with many designers in the states and even in a corporate in house design firm. but when i see asian designers they do that everyday and for much less pay. and for a north american designer it is hard to adjust. but you also have to think about that designers in asia has a lot more tools and resources to play with then in the states. the factories are right next door and that is one of the reason why a lot of north american designers are comeing here. it is so easy to have your design being produced. they are open to do anything and try everything. I mean you have to have a real open mind when you come to asia. you can not be a ego tripping north american designer or you will just isolate your self.
as for north american design firm dying out…that is true…many of the design firms i use to know when i was in school are now all dead and alot of my class mates are laid off. and the larger firms they are either down sized or they not only do ID design but tons of other design field such as advertising and corporate designs. that is not due to asian design firms but rather that us coporate office/ former customers thought it is better to keep things in house rather then source it out due to buget.
as for HOng Kong. there is a lot of small design firms but the large ones are either in taiwan or japan or operations up in shanghi.
but even if you are white north american you can still take less pay and have tons of things here you can play with. cost of living is much less here. i mean a full course meal only cost like less then 5 bucks and you can rent a full pad for less then 200 bucks.
heck all the KTV and the girls that the factory will supply to you is a great perk too…HAHAHA.
I’ll tell you the BIGGEST reason why ID firms in North America are dwindling away. It’s because it’s a “design club.” All those lame firms hire design monkey’s, who are willing to take orders from an under-talented, egotistical Designer Director, who doesn’t know how to use ANY creative software what-so-ever not to mention draw a straight line to save their life.
If North American firms would focus more on hiring “design talent” instead of hiring “design talkers” then maybe they’d still be in business.
The thing about the Chinese is that they are like human sponges.
So hiring Timf is their way of learning the Western design mentality, understanding it, replicating it, and executing it…better, faster and cheaper.
I think it’s great that Timf is going over there…I’m sure his talent will be utilized over there then here in some dumb firm being a yes man.
North American Design firms are like fraternities of the design world. You got some 10 or 15 year veteran that doesn’t know what’s “in” now and is at the top of the totem pole, blowing smoke signals from his or her little design tepee he or she has created over the years. “Let’s have another meeting next week about the meeting we are having right now and brainstorm some more about how my novel idea (which I got from my brown-nosing design lacky) will increase you business profitability significantly.” No wonder all these GREAT firms are disappearing…
The good news is, is that I just saved a whole bunch of money on my car insurance by switching over to GEICO!
I guess this says little about the talent from those. Glad to be minority. Whew!
From what I have heard (Hong Kong Island and maybe Kowloon) is very expensive to get a decent apartment. I was flying over there last week and speaking with a resident and she said a 800 sq ft apt (condo) wo0uld be like 2.5mil US dollars. I am pretty sure she was speaking about HK Island but I am not sure.
Other than that it would seem like a great opportunity. HK is a pretty fun place as long as you don’t have to go into China too often… I am still a little frazzled after trying to drive through the Shenzhen area…
My brother is a realstate agent in Hong Kong… last time I checked, an apartment in Kowloon depending on location and sometime… “direction”, 800 sq feet should be around 2.5 million Hong Kong Dollars. Renting range from about 15,000 HKD to 25000 HKD per month.
Sorry, I have not replied. I have been on vacation. I am accepting the position of Design Director this evening.
Yes, apartments are expensive in Hong Kong. 700-1,000 square feet does go for US$2500 to $3,000 a month. But as long as you do not try to live the life of absolute luxury, everything else is cheaper. Food is cheap. Public transportation is very cheap. Plus income tax is 10%. The US only charges you tax over US$80,000 plus you get to deduct the taxes you pay to Hong Kong (I have a brother-in-law in the IRS). This means I will be paying no US taxes. This alone helps offset some of the housing costs.
Just an aside: The US is the only developed country that taxes its citizens no matter where they live in the world or who they work for. It’s crazy but true.
Congratulations Timf,
It should be an interesting lifestyle change for you which can only expand your horizons and enrich you with further cultural understanding. All good stuff for a designer and a great side benefit with the job.
My take on HK - Skills & speed of design work are certainly not lacking here.
Given the proximity to the manufacturing base, designers are heavily involved in production & design implementation.
In addition businesses are still very much OEM or ODM driven (despite the hype) and design directives focus mostly on cost efficiency and restyling.
Not much time or money for research & exploration basically.
If you don’t allow this to frustrate then all should be well.
People place great importance on career progress and earnings given the extreme rat race reality here. Constant materialistic talk can put a bit of a downer on your creative efforts.
Also despite such an internationally exposed city, local designer don’t seem to travel abroad much (!?). I can see why a company with American market interests would belike to offering you the job therefore.
One big annoyance is the pollution.
The territory is run by a traditionally business friendly administration and possibly even swayed by influential tycoons. So this intense form of capitalism leads to many environmental compromises.
And yet a bus ride ride from your home or office will get you to one of the myriad of walk paths that lead into the lush green hills with great views.
I can’t think of anywhere else I’ve lived where that is possible.
It really is a place of extreme opposites.
Hope this helps.
did i read that right? a ‘design director’ position in a major global city that is paying 80K or less? correct me if i misunderstood the explanation of taxes and deductions.
seems low. in my experience, to be a ‘director’ means you have gone through several levels…designer, senior designer, design manager at least, sometimes you’d have to add assistant manager, manager, then senior manager levels before reaching director. this probably means at least 10 years of experience, more likely 15-20. (and if you reached director level in less than 10 years, then congratulations, you are a rock star - but a rock star would not accept such a salary!) all that for 80K or less? being pursued by the CEO of a company at dinner, then being offered 80K or less? is this director title more like an ‘art director’ title in communications design, which can mean ‘entry level designer’?
in major design hubs (NYC, SF, LA…not sure about London), plenty of senior designers make around 80K, not to mention managers. an international director living in a high rent city…shouldn’t that be more like 125K, 150K, +? plus bonus/profit share? just doesn’t seem to add up.
so taxes will be lower in HK, thats a plus. but rent will be higher - even by NYC or SF standards. hours will be same or possibly much longer. responsibility (= stress, blame) will be much higher than most senior designers have to deal with. (but then you can add the filipina maid in the plus column!)
i guess this only makes sense if you are young and free and willing to sacrifice money for an experience abroad. (and HK is a great city, super dramatic visually and geographically). or, if you were a design manager at an appliance manufacturer in kentucky or somewhere, maybe 80K sounds pretty good!