My name is Daniel VanDerAue, and I would like to share feedback regarding your Honda Element program… I have wear tested it for aprox 1.5 years… Relative to my background in Design and Development, i’d like to share some thoughts in regards to how to improve your product…
If you know someone who is envolved in Honda Design/Development, please email them a link to this thread … I would like to provide to provide free feedback and ideas…
Two years of experience and you really expect a representitive from Honda to personally contact you?
You’ll have better luck mailing your report. Hint:contact their HR department (website). I’m guessing they won’t be too interested, as they have internal departments handling issues such as this.
Well blasto did say, “free feedback”. I’m sure they do have internal departments handling this, as well as focus groups (who they pay). Nothing wrong with providing some free feedback, maybe he’s an Element enthusiast and wants to contribute to a product he cares about.
Blasto, do some digging around and find out who the North American CEO of Honda is, print that up, and mail it to him and/or some of their PR people. You might even get a response. If you’re looking for employment on the project however, you’ll probably want to go through the proper channels.
The problem is that these days you can’t just say, hey, I’m a designer and I can make that product better.
Better from who’s perspective? Self-referential design doesn’t cut it anymore. With the Element in particular there is a very specific target group that was defined in high detail at Honda. They’re probably much more interested in seeking out those target users, or if they use Personas, sticking to “archetypical” users.
Your assumption is that as an Element owner, you fit into their target audience, but the very fact that you’re a designer says that you’re probably not.
The biggest problem is, who at Honda want’s to hear your ideas? The designers? Yeah right, they’d love for you to come in and tell them their baby’s ugly. Marketing? They may agree with you, but they’ll want numbers to prove it out. Then what? They tell the designers what to do? Plus the lawyers will keep you 500 feet from any of them anyway, fearing a patent infringement lawsuit if they even smell your ideas and you’re not on the payroll.
Just do what I do–throw those ideas out there either in this forum or on a blog. If they like what you have to say, they’ll call.
In defense of Blasto’s post, and to the unqualified comment after it:
Better from who’s perspective? Self-referential design doesn’t cut it anymore. With the Element in particular there is a very specific target group that was defined in high detail at Honda. They’re probably much more interested in seeking out those target users, or if they use Personas, sticking to “archetypical” users.
Your assumption is that as an Element owner, you fit into their target audience, but the very fact that you’re a designer says that you’re probably not.
wow that was an ad hominem attack. Completely irresponsible and uninformed.
Yes he actually IS the Element’s archetypal user, to a “T”, designer or not. In fact I have seen him actually USE it as it was intended. Furthermore since when is being a designer a lifestyle differential? Is it like being gay or being a Tween?
Unlike some “focus group” or “Target demographic” who usually can’t refrain from using words such as “ugly” or" I just don’t like the handle there"; I’m sure a designer is perfectly capable of detailing an honest critique even to anonymous blog. But would prefer to direct their comments in some proactive way, successful or not. Some have better things to do than speak into an echo chamber where the merits and failures of his opinion will be debated personally rather than the design.
More people should speak up and offer their opinions objectively and with candor, and the designers and marketers should listen. Objective, emotive, experiential input is more illuminating than focused empirical data. Don’t assume, listen.
Since one of the screening questions in all focus groups conducted by reputable research firms is:
Do you or a direct family member work in new product development?. Answer yes and you are cut from that focus group. Designers are not the typical user of anything (well except Alias and etc.), simply becuase we have a trained eye for the details, and becuase we are eternally looking for the flaws in everything.
CG is right, the gate keepers at Honda will never let him near the designers. Best bet at submitting the suggestion is to call the customer service line and see if there is a sugestion box. However it is highly unlilely that it will ever be checked.
More likely than not what he will suggest has been thought of and sugested by designers along the way, but were cut mainly to keep costs at the proposed price point. Remeber design is simply a balancing act between style, usability, and cost. It the whole 80-20 rule: please 80% of people 20% of the time or please 20% of the people 80% of the time.
More people should speak up and offer their opinions objectively and with candor, and the designers and marketers should listen. Objective, emotive, experiential input is more illuminating than focused empirical data. Don’t assume, listen.
I agree, however the world does not. In an ideal world, designers would all colaberate and the products and world would be greatly improved. But in reality ego’s, emotions, and the all-mighty dollar get in the way. From my experiance, for the most part they are the ego’s of the marketing department not of the designers.
Yeah designers should be lisened too, and their trained eyes and critiques can and are more usefull than most focus group data. However marketing departments and CEO’s want the hard data so they can project their ROI. And they want to feel as though they are the ones solving the problems.
I gave Blasto four insights based on my professional experience. What are you giving him? Don’t sit there and attack me with “unqualified, uninformed and irresponsible” without offering anything constructive or legitimate in response.
The fact is that you have no idea if he’s Honda’s idea of an archetypical user. And are you honestly implying that “the designers and marketers” aren’t listening to their customers?
Personally, I agree with cg, but I always like being the devil’s advocate, and encouraging people to reach for their goals, so here I go pontificating again:
I’ve been in alot of interviews where people asked me, “so…do you do _____”. I interviewed for an outdoor good’s manufacturer once and they were brutally honest: “look, we don’t have time to get you up to speed on the requirements of the product and how the products are made/function. We can tell you are a good designer. We can tell you can do research. But…we need a product tommorow, and that means someone that already knows everything about us, our competition and the products.” So … sometimes it’s good to know about the product.
If I were you…I wouldn’t have posted this on Core…because you are going to get flamed. That’s Core. What I would do if I were you…is I’d search out one designer at Honda Cal. Just one…I don’t care if he is the director (although that’s prefered, go to the top!), but someone. Send them your ideas and tell them that you are REALLY into cars and you have this burning desire to design them or parts of them and show them your work. Then give them a call. To be honest, don’t expect a career in autos…it’s the toughest design market to get into…very elite, but hey, if that’s your dream, go for the gold buddy.
One last thing is…if you get through to a designer there, and you are able to talk about cars…if the guy has time, you are going to have an hour conversation and he will remember you when it comes to hiring time and maybe you will go ahead of some other people…who knows, maybe even score an interview. It’s more about who you know than what you know to get an interview (from there out, it’s what you know 99%).
Actually, I just reread your thread and looked at your Corefolio. What does any of this have to do with the Element? If you want to talk about, a few of us real gear heads are over in the Transport forum. Come join us and start something new!
So what do you want to change about the Element? I just bought one 5 months ago and minus a few minor complaints i love it. It’s not quite the car I’ve been looking for - but its the closest thing. For the money it can’t be beat - (if your needs are the same as mine). It handles nicely off-road - I get it dirty as often as I can. Here’s my 2 cents…
Good Points:
Versatile, functional. rugged, 5 spd is quick (8.6 0-60), good mileage (24 mpg), cargo room, nice stereo with mp3 player input jack.
Bad pionts:
Suicide doors not ideal for passenger entry & exit, seats offer little lateral support, overall boxy design is a turn off for some, you can’t open the rear door from the inside.
As far as the design, personally I would give it some slightly larger fender flares and raise it 2 inches for more clearance while lowering the roof line 1 inch. I could go on I suppose, but Honda can’t please everybody. I’m happy in my Element and I look forward to modifying it after the warranty expires.
If I were you I would refrain from using this comment in the company of avide off-road enthusiest. such as any one owning a stock Wrangler, Cherikee Clasic, or and 4x4 pick up. I have driven the element off-road, it handles the dirt and gravel trails…only ok. Put it into the true off-road conditions, no trails, steep climbs, and thick mud…My wife had to pull it out with her stock $12,000 wrangler sport.
FYI off-road is not driving the gravel trail back to the camp site, it is forging your own trais through the backwaters of an old strip mine, forest, desert, or mountains.
Are Element’s even selling? I personally like it, but between the Scion and the Element, at least in So-Cal, the Scion is definitely winning.
I read in the NYT that while the Element was designed for tweens, forty-year olds are the ones actually buying them. Meanwhile I think Scion is actually hitting their target market.
Scion, also has a fairly large (for new entry) and rapidly growing after market parts catalog. Main point that makes it hit its taget 16-25 demographic is the extream amount of personalization that you can do to it for little $$$. There is one that a 16-17 yo had at a local nopi show last month, twin turbos, nos, 6 8" lcd monitors, dvd changer, custom seats and paint. Total build bill was 55K, and it ran the quarter in 10.2
My del Sol off roads probably about the same as an Element, although I haven’t driven one yet. You will always be limited in ability with a FWD off road with limited suspension travel.
I can report from Canada that the Element is doing well. We don’t have the Scions here though. They are VERY different vehicles though. The Scion bB is based on the cheap Vitz/Yaris/Echo platform with a miniscule engine and iron age twist beam rear axle. I think it retails at what $14k? The Element has a much bigger engine and IRS. I think retail is 18-20k? That’s a whole different market segment!
Personally, I think if Scion is a hit with the young buyers that Toyota wants to win with it, it is the result of two factors: value/price. The Scions, like our Echo 3/5 door, is a really cheap car. This side of Kia, I think they have the cheapest cars out there. But the Scions deliver on value, because they hit that aesthetic and cool factor that young people would like. However, I would argue that it isn’t over. Honda is bringing the Jazz over soon, which will slot nicely under the Civic to compete with Scions. Plus, despite a pretty poor '01-04 Civic, Honda has still managed to attract the “riceboy” crowd.
I expect more of a company 10 times the size of Honda…but that’s just me.