Freelancer websites ripoff's

Just to say how unhappy I am with some freelance work websites like Unhappy with the buyers attitude for sure.

When I first joined this website I could even get a couple of works in the first weeks, everything going fine, small works ranging the $500 but suddenly, bid limits imposed by the requests started to be always $20-$100. I mean full websites by $20 - $100!!! Is this profession starting to be the least paid in the world?

This is so frustrating that people even think or have the nerve of asking ANYTHING on these values! And even worse is that after the Euro passed the dollar ($1 = €0.81) biding on these sites started to be pretty pointless.
Even more frustrating is that actually there are service providers that make it for 100, 50, 20 or even less.

Anyone who agrees? Do you know any websites of this style which havent been affected by the sudden graph / webdesign slavery trend?

Waiting for your response. Thanks for reading.

Yes I have heard this about these sites for graphic and web design. You must remember that you are competing with countries all over the world for these jobs. $100 goes a lot farther in India than it does in the US. I’m sure its the same for Portugal.

Best to look for freelance by using placement agencies or cold calling in your area.

I remembered back when I was 16, a classmate of mine was so good at web design( of course the technical side) that he was making $300 a page for clients who have never seen him before. No one really cared about the visual aspect of the webpages, as long as they are easy to navigate and loaded with gadgets.

$300 is very low. What do you mean by this?

$300 a page, for someone who hasn’t even graduated from highschool, is good.

yup true. but the thing is that these prices are being asked to professionals. and there are people who do it for that price… suxx!!!

Forget web sites…I have seen products such as in home PCS repeater stations entire design and complete pro/e modeling be awarded to freelancers claiming to complete the program for $3,000, including a functional prototype. Talk about under valuing and devaluing the design industry.

functional prototype? not an IDer doing that i bet. probably an engineer calling themselves an IDer.

i could deliver a relatively simple nonfunctional box for that. but would be down and dirty. get what they pay for - 3-4 days of my time. nothing more.

actually I did a little research into the guy, BFA in ID and a BS in Design Engineering (Polymer/plastics specialty). 10 years experience for large aerospace company, laid off when company lost Gov contract and started outsourcing to local D&E firms. Now freelancing CAD and Design, lowballing everything to get the work. Works out of his basement, even built his own vacumforming table, and wrote an article (posted it to the web) instructing engineers how to create functional RTV prototypes without the use of SLA or an RP provider. Calls design firms the “death of innovation and the American way of life!”

Basically instructs you to build a machining station out of a set of gears tool slides, and an old drill press. Go to a plastics supplier and purchase a chunk plastic. Then machine it out using the homeade machine and finishing by hand. Then use a cardboard box and tubes of 100% silicone caulking to create the mold. Then mix up the resin and using the “largest syringe you can find” to inject the resin into the mold “forcefully enough to evacuate all airbubbles”. finishes with, “So now you see what you really were paying for, mostly the Lexus the owner is driving on their vacation in Boca.”

Bitterness…Bitterness…, and no self worth, or pride in what he does…I really feel sorry for him, until I realize he has done this to himself.

It sounds bad… but I’m not an ID’er… only graph / web.
Can someone tell me what is a PCS repeater?

Sorry for the dumb question… :blush: :unamused:

It was intended to be a powered cell phone antena for you house to allow you to maintain a full cell signal when in your home or appartment.

bitterness? maybe not. some of what he says is true. many dsign firms charge way too much for whats delivered. and inventors/entrepreneurs are treated more harshly than big clients. it’s Pay Up Front… we dont trust you little people. you know thats true. that stifles them and creativity. and stories of high costs discourage others.

besides, he got the business so why is he bitter? tbh your sounding pretty unhappy. you post this stuff alot. no one has to like it. but it will probably get worse before it gets better.

Just tired of designers not seeing the value that they present to their clients. Treating design like it is a mere commodity, and that it is not an important step in the success of a product. The vision of design and the value that ID presented to companies was growing, and we need to continually build upon this value proposition. We are finally in the media on a regular basis. Now is the time that all of us need to take action and prove this value through not only design innovative, attractive, and cost effective products, but by becoming involved in the entire development process start to finish, become the strategic planners and visionaries that we are schooled and trained to be. We need to begin to demand this of our clients. This is how we will overcome the rapid growth of the low price and low quality design being offered by Chinese manufacturing companies.

I also hear many designers on here and in the real world complaining about how little we get paid when the products net the companies millions. Well then we need to start billing for the value that we bring to the table. But instead everyone is so willing to drop their pants and do the work for pennies on the dollar just to get the work, in return devaluing themselves, the profession, and the services that we provide.

Unhappy…with my job, life, and current being no…with people not seeing, or building the image of ID as a strategic partnership, but merely as a tactical tool or product development expense, yes. I could see this back in school and struggled to understand why, now that I am in the workforce, seeing clients treat the designers who dropped their prices to get the work like sh*t, and seeing how I am trusted as an equal by the Presidents of my 6 main clients, even was brought in to help interview and decide on a new head of new product R&D (keep in mind I just turned 25).

When I first started working we would drop our pants to get the client, thought the clients were all about the money, then we always ended up doing more than we agreed to because the client "interpreted Design to encompass engineering as well, and then tooling quotes, and then dropping everything to come to their plant to fix every little problem that they said they could handle in house. The being told if you want to work for us again you wont charge us for these changes. Thank God we stopped that, and are now out of the rat race of bidding on price. We loose a lot less jobs, and have far better projects to work on. With big name clients…soon will reveal as they start to hit the stores. Perhaps I will do the YKH inspired website for the press releases currently being written.

By the way many medium to large firms (been given previous quotes by clients, and spoken to a fee retired design managers and sales people) 10 years ago used to charge on average

3-5% of the total margin of profit on the project for the first 3-5 years, Industrial Design work alone.

I have even in the last year seen a proposal from a small Chicago Based design firm 6 employees (not my firm either). $150,000 to conduct a 2 day brainstorming session, and come up with 20 concepts. Timeline 1 week total. Project awarded, and beat out an other company who bid $10,000 to come up with min 30 initial concepts without even meeting with the client in person. Client saw the value of having every member of their staff be involved in the concept formulation.

Like I said prove the value you present, that is what I am suggesting…and to charge what it is worth to the client. Not to gouge the client simply to get more cash, that I totally disagree with.

you have one idea of how to do business. its not the only one. we’ve had this discussion before. getting old.

i will say one thing tho. Chinese designers are not “low quality”. clients are getting what they pay for. these are American clients that are selling alot of product in the U.S.

thinking like that has cost lots of companies and people their jobs. the Chinese can deliver high-quality design. and when companies want it and its worth it to them, the choice will be American or Chinese or whoever. be prepared.

Thats the way it is I’m afraid, its all done online… there is no in-the-flesh interview, no CV integration, as long as you can show you have the ability…then thats it. Anyone with the mearest artisical flair can pick up a book and learn to build a goodlooking static html site within a month or two.
I know a guy who did’nt graduate, worked in a factory glueing shoes whilst learning to build shit hot flash animations in his spare. Within 2 years of self knowledge… he was hired by a top design firm. Yes, it all came about just by handing in his URL to the company @mail who happened to be recruiting in a magazine adv at the time.

As for the ones that ask for peanuts in more wealthier countries, they are the ones who usually have day jobs in other industries, or students looking for pocket money. To get to the point… a 16 year old spotty school kid could build an equally better site than a 36 year old seasoned professional webdesigner whos company went bust. And or what…1/4 of the wage?

It’s a scruffy trade my friend…

To get to the point… a 16 year old spotty school kid could build an equally better site than a 36 year old seasoned professional webdesigner whos company went bust. And or what…1/4 of the wage?

In some ways that is true but will the 16 year old understand branding, marketing, company audience… maybe but I bet the 36 year old might have a better understanding. This kind of stuff usually requires some experience. Chances are the 16 year old likes to design… or shall I say decorate. He/she may not really be designing.

Of coures I am willing to be the 16 year old may have better/faster technical skills than the 36 year old.

and to follow that, the 16 y/o may not have the knowledge of product for properly follow the “flow” of the design from one page to the next. keeping the theme consistant while changing a few elements to suit the product/s or services offered.

what if he was 18