"don't lump me with businessmen" - Discuss

I just read a post on the “arrogance” thread, and a designer requested the original poster to not lump him with “businessmen”

This line made me think :

Aren’t designers businessmen? A design consultancy is a business, yes or no? If no, why not?

Aren’t products that you design a part of a business? Does that not make a designer part of “business”? If no, why not?

Why the great divide between business and design, at least perceptually? Is it because a designer still perceives himself/herself/itself an “artiste” and not a worker bee?

Thoughts?

Yes we are businessmen but I think the connotation is with ruthless evil businessmen. I deal with a lot of unethical clients. For some reason designers run into a lot of these. A lot of people assume we do this work for fun and it is “easy” or quick for us. ID people are especially prone to scammers trying to get us to divulge our ideas for free or at a low fee.

Is it me or do you notice a lot of clients ask for free design or ridiculously low design fees when they can in turn make bucko bucks off of some of your ideas? They always view it as a cost more so than an investment in their future product which really gets to me.

If you think about it, design is actually incredibly cheap when you are making hundreds of thousands of units of something…design is practically free but still ruthless business folks find ways to chisel us out of a decent living.

Do you present this logic to the client when negotiating fees? In any transaction, each party wants to get the best deal possible, and therefore they negotiate on contracts. “ruthless” " chisel" - sounds like clients ARE the enemy rather than the facilitators for your ability to make a living out of doing something you love?

Infini, are you are refering to my post regrding arrogance in design? If so, did you not see that I put the word businessmen in quoteations? I was refering to the dumb ass Donald Trump wanabee Aprentice type business person that is becoming so predominant lately. The ones who think that just because they have a “craker jack” MBA and are load we wont notice how stupid they actually are. Please dont lump me in with these types!
My dislike of Architects? well that is obvious.

I was in fact referring to that, but I think this is a timely discussion anyway beyond the specifics of your post.

How would you tell apart the good businessman from the bad? Just very interested in the suits vs us approach that is so strong amongst designers, but non existent amongst the suits i.e. they aren’t anti designer

we are just mere cogs in the machine :wink:

I am working on how I can attend an ID school and get my BFA but I am just as intrested in learning about business.

Successful business men and women use alot of the same skills as an artist would. The most successful seem to be very creative, forward thinking people with a lot of talent and creativity to capitalize on future trends.

maybe you should consider a Bachelor of Science in Industrial Design and A Master of Business Administration … instead of that BFA.

A good businessman knows when to delegate and when to dictate as well as when to speak and when to listen.

a good designer also knows when to dictate, when to delegate as well as when to speak and when to listen.

you are all stupid and should grow up or kill yourselves because if you design things you make for business. design won’t save the world nor does it stop people from riding horses to work…btw the horse comment was retarded…a designer did not make the cultural acceptance of cars a reality, the efficiency and economic affordability made cars pervasive, not design and that had way more to do with engineering and mfging and business than design …get over yourself. btw I am a professionally employed designer and because I have been ripped on this site before I will say to the high design people I have design awards from IDmag and IDSA plus my professional experience… design isn’t more important to people and business and government because of the that high minded, elitist BS. it is perfectly unattainable and the speak kills it for the masses because when it comes down to it most design that designers seems to like is in opposition to the needs and wants of the mass public…take for instance walmart…designers hate that place but the PEOPLE love it.

I agree with the person who posted the question. It is a problem with the profession…it has become exclusionary without the ability to recognize it…either that or the most of the “humanitarian” people on this site are naive students…which I am starting to think is completely true.

there you go

I love business. That is how I make money.