Tamara: where are you based? Because if you are in the UK you can study a leather course . At the least, organise yourself a tannery visit. I learnt on my footwear degree, but also many different factories were kind enough to take the time to explain over the years. Don’t be afraid to ask, you should never stop learning.
Anyway, some replies below. Bit rusty, so anyone feel free to correct me!
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: more Q I’m afraid…
mmm… I’m afraid that another wave of questions is coming…
It’s just that as much as you explain I realize how much I don’t know…
I hope you won’t get tired…
- Which parts of the hide are the ones most commonly used and which ones are considered to be best/worst ones?
You can use all parts of the hide except the offal pockets (armpits, in laymens terms), I think the butt is the best bit, the belly a bit stretchy.
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What are the different tanning processes and which are the most expensive ones?
Veg tanning and chrome tanning - I’m not sure which is cheapest, possibly chrome? You can tell a chrome tanned hide as it is blue in the middle.
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I know what a patent leather is, but what is actually the process that makes it look like that? It is coated, nowadays with some kind of p.u.,
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Is the common belief about suede being “reversed leather” is not true?
Not true - real suede is leather with the grain buffed off, with a kind of roller/sandpaper machine - finer sandpaper is used to produce nubuck. Hide is quite thick before tanning, so it is split into two layers. The top bit is used for full grain leather or true suede. The ‘back’ bit is used to produce either coated leather (p.u. coating, plus emboss) or split suede (often called crust or crosta by the Italians).
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Quote:
split is often fron the middlelayers of the hide (opposite of full grains in some Tanneries)
What did you mean by that (opposite…)? See above.
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How can I defer between the 4 types of leather (full grain etc.) when I just look at a piece of leather or a product (what are each “identifying marks”) and how can I recognize the different processes like waxing when I look at something? I think the best thing to do is to collar someone at a tradeshow - get yourself to Lineapelle and bug someone from Pittards or Prime - they love talking about their product. I haven’t time to type everything I know here.
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What are the different coating types commonly used?
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Quote:
Typically a super thin layer of something is dye/paint/wax/waterproofing etc.
How can I at all know if it is leather when it comes to such thin layers?
- My last question comes as a result of my “frustration of the day”:
Today I found myself in the middle of a conversation about the different animals used for the leather industry and had a few surprises I must admit… eel? frog?
So my question is - which animal leathers are the most commonly used for the shoe industry and are there any other surprises I need to be “warned” about?
Is there some kind of source (website or any publication) where you can see the special pattern of each animal skin cause I must say I never observed the skin of the eels…
There are many leathers - again, I think you should go to a leather trade show to familiarise yourself with all the different types - AFAIK there isn’t a book. Some animal rights activist people get upset about kangaroo being used for soccer boots, but it’s the best thing for the job as its one of the thinnest, strongest leathers and does not easily stretch out of shape.
The most un p.c. leather I’ve come accross is aborted calf. Never labelled as such, this is incredibly thin and soft and used more in garments or gloves. It is made by aborting the unborn animal and tanning the super thin, soft leather. It is so thin you could be fooled into thinking it’s not leather!
I also know for a FACT that horse leather is widely used by the footwear trade, (used it myself) but as there are no labelling requirements for the type of animal you use, only to mark it leather, most people don’t know. I can imagine some would get very upset if they knew. It’s cheaper than cow and very soft. Sheep is good too, very soft. Kid is used lots in high end womens shoes - it is nice and thin - you can identify coz the grain is like lots of liitle semi -circular dots.
Fish is great - love salmon skin, looks abit like dry python, very strong and light. Ostrich looks knobbly and is used in lots of high end You can tan any skin. Infact in UK Victorian era, it was heard of to tan the skin of deceased criminals and use it to cover lampshades or books!
Only thing to watch out is certain reptile is protected and you may have to rpoduce licenses to import.
Also: I saw so many designers make this mistake. Make sure you are aware of the size of the hide you want to use. As in don’t try to design boots that are made of corn snake or kid, because the hide won’t be big enough!
I really hope I’m not tiring you with my questions…
Thanks anyhow…
Supernaut Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: a bit more focus
tamara wrote:
Could you specify the differences between the 4 leather types you’ve mentioned.
I know It’s in the process but I don’t really know what that process is of each one…
Are there any other types which are fairly commonly used?
Full Grain–!00% leather, can be split, sueded, coated, painted, dyed etc. no backers, any thickness. Can be expensive or cheap depending on what part of the hide it comes from (belly, shoulders etc), or what process is used to tan it. Full grain top hide often reffers to when the hide is unsplit or uses the top layer of hide (the opposite of split). can be waxed, patented and firly thin thichness for linings and backiers for thicker full grain.
Split–Split hide. The hide is cut laterally into layers depending on thickness and location on hide. split is often fron the middlelayers of the hide (opposite of full grains in some Tanneries)Fairly cheap, fiarly durable depending on what part of the hide its from.
Sueded–Full grain top layer hide with the topmost bit cut/sanded/peeled off. More expensive than split, sometimes more expnesive than full grain top hide due to the process. Excellent durability, nice feel.
Coated–just exactly that. split, sueded, full grain coated with everything you can think of. Cheap to expensive depending on coatings.
tamara wrote:
And another question:
Quite often you run into materials where you can see a few layers but the external layer is so thin that you can’t really define if it’s leather or not. Should such a thin layer, which obviously makes the “leather characteristics” practically “fade away”, still effect the price?
yes absolutely. But it depends on what type of stuff is on top. Typically a super thin layer of something is dye/paint/wax/waterproofing etc. An example of a more expensive leather with a thin coating is Patent leather and it masks the preformance or hand of leather making it more durable/shiny. As does something as simple as shoe polish…
tamara wrote:
I admit I am quite ignorant with all that has to do with leather…
everyone is at first. If you get to go to Asia make an appointment to visit one of your suppliers tanneries. Ask the same questions you are asking here. Factory owners and PR /markleting type really do like ot talk about this stuff.
tamara wrote:
Could you classify the different types of leather according to what’s considered to be the highest quality to the lowest quality (which will obviously help me to find my way with prices as well).
I can try:
expensive to cheap:
Full grain
Sueded
Split
Coated
But all bets are off depending on thickness, hand, dyeing etc…
tamara wrote:
And the last question:
Ae there any combined materials which considered to be of higher quality than certain leather types?
Sure. I’ve used a PU coated leather that was absolutely bombproof with a higher durability andf flexibility that full grain leather and it was more expensive.
But it depends on how you define “high quality”–feel? look? flexibility?, durability? etc…
tamara Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: a bit more focus
Thanks Supernaut!
That really puts things in focus for me.
But exposing your knowledge you’ve brought on yourself some more questions I’m afraid…
Could you specify the differences between the 4 leather types you’ve mentioned.
I know It’s in the process but I don’t really know what that process is of each one…
Are there any other types which are fairly commonly used?
And another question:
Quite often you run into materials where you can see a few layers but the external layer is so thin that you can’t really define if it’s leather or not. Should such a thin layer, which obviously makes the “leather characteristics” practically “fade away”, still effect the price?
I admit I am quite ignorant with all that has to do with leather…
Could you classify the different types of leather according to what’s considered to be the highest quality to the lowest quality (which will obviously help me to find my way with prices as well).
And the last question:
Ae there any combined materials which considered to be of higher quality than certain leather types?
Thanks in advance for the patience…
