Dedicated Packaging/POP section in the forum

There seems to be some interest in creating a Packaging/POP section here in the forums. I thought I would put this post up to see if there is real interest in this. I have argued in a previous post that I feel that there are a lot of Packaging and POP designer in the forum but we tend to get over shadowed by the more glamourous types of ID. Although field of ID is not the most glamourous, it is a very important part of the product development process and exicution.

In the past few months with posts being made about Pepsi, Arnell, Coke, and Tropicana, there has seemed to be more and more interest in Branding and Packaging. I think these have been really great discussions that have brought Packaging/POP designers, Footwear designers, Consumer Product designers, and others together to discuss things as simple as a Coke can.

So my questions are…

First am I right that there is interest out there?

Second…To the Core gods, if there is interest, how do we make this happen?

I second this PackageID, and I also think it is good for the more traditional product Industrial Designers to have insight as how their products can be presented to their end user and how they can consider this more when designing as well.

I’d also like to suggest adding Exhibit Design to this or as a forum as lots of that industry hires from the Industrial Design pool too. Coroflot has a portfolio search option for these things, kind of makes sense to have a place to discuss them as well right?

I’ll also chime in in favor of both POP and Exhibit/Environmental Graphic Design. There really should be a forum for everything you can search for on coroflot in my opinion…

I’d certainly like to see it happen. Count me in!

I posted this on R’s thread, but I thought I would put it here as well. Some concern has come up around whether or not a POP forum could create enough traffic to be sustainable. I think if we were to think of it as being more than just a POP thread and more about a branding, and brand development than it could work. This would include POP, Packaging, Exhibits, and other promotional material. I don’t really know what to call this though. :laughing:

This would include posts like the Pepsi and Tropicana discussions, the thread titled “when design goes bland” and others that have come up around brand identity but would not leave out R’s post about POP design. These are just thee example I know there are many more out there.

Please post your thoughts…

so comments from another thread regarding this-

thread it came from is here-

http://boards.core77.com/viewtopic.php?t=18453&start=30&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Great suggestion R.

Branding / Retail design forum that could encompass POP displays, Exhibit Design, Packaging, Environmental Graphic design, etc. would be a welcome addition, I think.

yes, branding/retail design sounds good.

I’m in!

I vote PackageID is the forum admin too :slight_smile:

Thanks Loafer. We have to get interest to make this happen. Hopefully the Core guys will pick up this topic and think about it.

So just to keep this thread going, I’m interested to know how many POP/package designers here are freelancers ?

I am a freelancer and like most freelancers I have my ups and downs but things are crazy busy at the moment. How are others finding it these days ?

Also, I have typically worked with manufacturing companies who generally like to offer a design service for free and make up the loss with the hope of winning production. Consequently this means all their design work is on spec. and so their budget is often minimal… I was always getting squeezed.

I’m now moving away from these kinds of clients and working more with marketing and advertising agencies who have much bigger budgets and they typically put more emphasis of the continuity of brand messaging and less on “how cheap can we make that in order to maximise profit”

Anyone else like to chime in ?

I do the occasional freelance project and in my experience, I let the client know what my estimate is based on the scope of work. If they are cool with that, I get the job. If they balk, then I stand firm and I end up not getting the project. I refuse to let my services become a commodity.

Then again, I also have full-time employment so it’s very easy for me to walk away from freelance projects. If I were full-time freelance, I might be more willing to be flexible on my invoice.

I’ve been on both sides. From the manufacturing standpoint what often happens is this: Freelance Designer X woos their client into a wonderful idea. Designer then shops the project to manufacturers, who bid per spec and/or alternates. Spec is usually more than the client wanted to spend anyway, so alternates are usually produced. Future work goes to the manufacturer because they are seen as the means to cheaper and satisfactory product, with no cost in design time (usually).

Now, I’m not saying this is every case but it my experience its been a good percentage of them. I’m also not totally happy about it. What we can do in the freelance market is this: put a bit more forethought to our clients needs and desires, and educate our client on why they are spending more money for good design for a good reason.

some great store designs…

also, link to a pdf about Ogilvy Actions recent survey about the increasing importance of in-store display and experiential marketing…

http://www.ogilvyaction.com/AdAge_SDMIS.pdf

I am a bit the same as nurb although, I have never really worked for the actually manufacturing house. (I did a short stint in a shop at one but it was only about a month) I do small freelance projects here and there, but most of my time is taken up by my everyday job. I tend to like to do non Packaging related freelance projects. I just designed a patio for a million dollar home, I have a love for interiors, and have some regular ID product development projects in the works.

While working at M&M’s/Mars I have dealt with the big display and packaging guys on the and most of the time we do ask for design development for free. This is because of like loafer said we know that they will make it up on our other displays and products that we do full time. PCA is one of our suppliers and they do this all of the time.

I agree with this if it is a project that you truly feel will make it out the doors and has legs and they are promised the business when it does. What I do not agree with is if a project is given to them to be a “Sell in” to the marketing group to get them excited about it or to try to change their mind. This can be rather frustrating because the supplier spends a great amount of time on it and usually it either changes, or it doesn’t go anywhere. This can cause the supplier to not take you seriously the next time you need something.

I’m up for trying out a Brand/P=Identity/Packaging topic and I can set that up.

My one concern is that we already have a number of underperforming forums in here. If you had to keep the number of forums the same, which one would you replace with this new one?

My suggestion would be the Design and Innovation Forum. It is the lowest performing one and from the looks of the posts they could be placed in numerous other topic. Of course we would let the Admins and The Mods make that decision.

I think we will be very surprised at the number of hits to this topic.

I’m not sure about anyone else, but I would def bookmark a forum on brand development/packaging/POP. It’s the field I work in and have always felt overshadowed by the gorgeous car and shoe renderings that seem to take a big chunk of the Core forums. I know for a fact that I have been treading water in this field for quite some time without having anyone in a similar field to talk to. I believe this forum could open up a great number of conversations as well as provide a ton of valuable information to others like myself who are the sole designer at their company.

In short, big YES for this forum.

yeah, I’ve been there before, working as the sole designer. I’m in a similar position working asa freelancer and it can sometimes feel like working in a bit of a vacuum with no one to bounce ideas off or even learn from.

so, yeah, I’m with you, it will be great to have our own little space.

Feel free to post opinions, links or anything in here for now. The bigger this thread gets the more the “powers that be” will take note of our plight :wink:

We all are in that boat, but we are not the only ones. there are other lees glamorous areas of ID. We are trying to get this going and want it to include all aspects of Branding and the shopping experience. If it works out it would be great to create discussions with the other IDers that do consumer products and how their products are sold and merchandised. From the Branding, to the packaging, to even how it appears in a store on the shelf.

Don’t worry, we will make this work.