So, what do most tableware, the latest BMW and VW plants, and all consumer electronics have in common today?
Let’s hear you all on this timely piece of writing.
Why not login or register and then post that question if you want to talk about it? Other wise this is just another flame war in the making, isn’t it?
They are still being produced outside of the PRC…
…and your point is?
knock, knock … read the labels … MADE IN CHINA for you.
hey you
yeah you, the dumb sounding one up there
Do I really have to explain a smarmy remark?
Do I have to explain “smarmy”?
[smarmily dripping with wit]…not all consumer products are made in China, BMWs and VWs are still made in Europe…[/smarmily dripping with wit]
“the latest BMW and VW plants”
true? i did hear China will be sending cars to the U.S. in a couple years.
read part of that Core article. she missed point about “free” design. not cost of living issue - its rolling fees into capital expenditure (aka Tooling) and amortizing it thats the issue. after i read her explanation i lost interest. even tho she made some good points too.
Volkswagen either has been or will be selling Chinese manufactured cars outside of China. They will be the first company to do so. Most car manufacturers have been making and selling cars in China for years. Jeep was one of the first manufacturers to open in China, and today has quite a healthy market share with the old Cherokee design in the Chinese market.
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the automotive market though. Something you will find is that automotive factories are heavily subsidized all over the world, including in the US! Governments find that car factories are a source of national pride, and an importatnt symbol of economic well being. This leads to governments pouring millions into retooling assistance at old plants in the US, Canada, UK, Germany, etc. despite the fact that you could probably pay more people with welfare than will end up being paid by the car companies.
Also of note, as someone living in Canada, be happy you american designers. The US still has some tariffs in place and other forms of trade barriers that will help your clients during the transitions that will be occuring during the next 5-10 years. Hopefully they will learn to look to american design even more for innovation and business strategy to make up for the loss of differentiation through pricing. In Canada manufacturing has been rapidly disappearing and the poor image of design has meant alot of business end up pricing themselves into bankruptcy once a Chinese manufacturer enters the market.
Hey retard,
Get your tiny excuse for a head out of your designer’s a_s and start reading the papers before they ship you there too.
BMW 3 and 5-series, and VW (Audi) are already being manufactured there as you inform the world of your ignorance and arrogance. THAT was the initial premise of the post, got it finally? OK, reset to your default status now.
Um ok; whatever…
since you missed the point of both my posts; I won’t comment on your comment toward my suppoosed ignorance on that matter. I just didn’t communicate it clearly enough for you to understand. I apologize.
I will inform you that you are correct I am in China now and have had a working relationship here for the past few years. The BMWs you refer to are for the Chinese and east Asian Markets and are not for export outside E. Asia. The consistancy of production is much lower than BMWs European and American production and body styles are usually two years behind the wests current body style. Although newer bodystyles are imported at five times the cost. VW has been here and suppling the Chinese market for about 6 years with chinese made Passats, Jettas, Polos and Golfs. Audi’s are imported. You won’t be seeing Chinese made vehicles in the west anytime soon due to Governmental subsidies and generally poor build quality.
As for consumer electonics everyone is correct and all are stating the obvious; a lot are made in China. But most of the higher ended compentry ( processors, hard drives and hard ware etc) are made in Singapore and Malaysia and imported for assembly. China still hasn’t got a hold of their business yet; but give them time…
My first point was:
“big deal, its old news that stuff (including high value brands such as BMW and VW who have factories here) is made in china. Enough stuff still continues to be made overseas outside of China.” What most miss is the fact that it is the largest market in the world, with its own sets of values, and the largest growing middle class in the world. The best benefit for a company is fulfill the demand for their products in China by making them in China. Contrary to popular belief (outside the PRC) there is a growing demand for “Made in China” and “Designed in China” products in China. Ignore China if you will. But don’t focus on it as just an aspect of your own fears and paranoia. China still looks to the west for innovation, or knocks it off–depends which side your on; and if you are just realizing that you could be over hear in a year or two working for them and not with them.
I would like to discuss the global impact of China civilly, but if you prefer to leave it on the level of third grade name calling I’ll wait till you grow up.
Thanks
you can’t compare china with US. they have a different approach and altogether a different philosophy. even design in china is different. those companies you mentioned are all western companies with western philosophies. chinese won’t be using their style of business and strategy, since their economics and trade is still based on chinese way of thinking. it’s hard to explain because it’s hard for westerners to grasp it. the chinese don’t operate like it’s a jet li movie where you got everything setup for a western market.
you just gotto wait and see!
Well those differences are not stopping Cadillac from making their cars over in China and selling them at really high prices. If the cars are the same quality it will only be a matter of time before they start shipping them to the U.S. so say goodbye to your job GM bluecollar worker.
"Myth 1: All design jobs are going to China
Truth:
Yes and no.
There are two parts to this answer; it very much depends on what type of “design” one is referring to. DESIGN is a very big word, from designing a corporate brand strategy, designing an innovative way of cleaning, or designing the styling of a toothbrush—we all call it “design.”
- The bad news is if you are in the last category of “design”—product form-making or styling business—it is very likely that such design services will truly move to China. Clients who are in the business of supplying distribution channels with loads of different styles of products—who are mainly looking for product “re-packaging” with quick turn around time—might find product sketching and rendering skills in China already very sophisticated and cost-effective [Figure 1, 2, 3]. China also has the location advantage of providing one-stop-shop service, from design rendering, engineering to manufacturing, so clients know that the designs on paper can be manufactured."
Oops, reality check for many on the decorating end of design. There are just too many designers emphasizing form over concept in their portfolios, so many in fact that product esthetics has finally become a cheap commodity easily traded on price alone all over the world. Archaic design schools, especially in the US, still provide too little engineering and business courses crucial to a graduate to trace a solid personal path in this sadly overcrowded field. Portfolios will get you the first one or two entry-level jobs perhaps, but it takes more original ways of convincing someone to hire you after that. Interesting how schools never understood people with oversized folios in most industry are looked at as graphic artists at best, not as creative individuals capable of affecting millions of dollars of yearly production investments.
If you’re still in school make sure you understand what business environment you’ll be graduating in. Design is an economic activity before a vehicle for self-expression.
Much applause from this peanut gallery on that statement.
If you can learn anything from China it is the truth of this statement.
What a load of absolute CRAP Elaine Ann serves up with her one-sided
article “The Top 10 Myths and Truths about Design in China”. The fact
is, the suddenly-open trade relations with China has absolutely
decimated the job market for everyone involved in manufacturing here in
the U.S. The market for designers, engineers and factory workers has
shrunk EVERY month now for more than 3 years. President Bush has allowed
U.S. firms to outsource virtually everything imaginable in exchange for
big campaign contributions from those (at the top) who benefit. Faced
with an overflowing sea of unemployed job applicants, employers have
become ridiculously specific about job requirements, while salaries for
new employees have dropped. Careers and families are being ruined. Kids
will spend 4 years (and huge sums of money) in college, and will
graduate to find that there aren’t any job openings in their field.
The TRUTH is, it’s never been more difficult to find a job as a designer
or engineer than it is right now, largely because of the Chinese
connection. But I don’t blame the Chinese for wanting to take every last
one of our jobs, it’s the fault of our own government. And it’s not only
the Chinese, much outsourcing is going to Mexico and India as well as a
long list of other countries.
Please WAKE UP to what’s going on all around you - harm is being done to
designers (and a lot of other good folks) in the U.S. Americans DESERVE to work - we BUILT this country. Please help get Bush out of office before we’ve all lost our jobs.
President Bush isn’t buying the things made in China.
You cannot COUNT on Americans as a whole to see the big picture and restrict themselves to buying only American-made products. Those who do (see the big picture) are pretty much forced to buy foreign-made goods because there is very little (or even no) choice, given that virtually everything is now foreign-made, including American name brands. American manufacturers have been forced to have manufacturing done overseas if they are to remain in business at all. Many products which claim to be “made in USA” in fact have significant foreign-made content. Before long, Americans will have NO choice but to buy foreign-made goods. Do you then blame the consumers for not buying American? Be real, my friend.
funny you should post the argument that American manufacturers are being forced to manufacture overseas. Those manufacturers themselves made conscious descisions to source overseas years ago due to the increasing expense of labor in America.
Should it matter where and object is made? If the customer is informed and would pay a premium for a “made in the USA” mark, then it matters. But saying that the customer is ill informed because they don’t care is a poor statement.
you need to really go out and really look into the issues involved; because its not customer demand its actually economics of scale.
I’m sure that you have made a conscious effort to surround yourself with American made products. Moreover Im sure you are actively persuing close relationships with local tooling shops and manufacturers in your area. I say that because some of us do in fact persue these realtionships. We do get local manufacturers to develop and prototype our designs. They then use their contacts overseas (which are ours as well) for production.
sounds terrible right? maybe not. You see when you compare the pure economics of scale and production between the US and China, it is more cost effective to produce short run, low volume production in the US; and to produce long run, high volume production in China. why? In an average chinese factory, its one to five workers per task in one specific area of production; while in the US its one worker per three to six tasks, and they have the ability to be “hot swappable” along a production line. tweleve hundred on a line in China versus sixty in the US. (at $15/hr=$900/hr in the US versus $2/hr=$2400 in China). This allows the US employee to be more quickly trained and more used to change and inconsistancy within a production schedule. They can handle much more difficult tasks and deal with assembly and poroduction problems more quickly than their Chinese counterparts. in short run production, this is a necessity and can actually be beneficial in the long run for working out production issues before investing in future longer term production. But in long run oproduction schedules it gets very overwhelming.
FWIW,
Who ever said “the customer is ill informed because they don’t care?” That doesn’t even make sense. Please re-read my post more carefully. And what’s all this stuff about “you need to really go out and really look into the issues involved; because its not customer demand its actually economics of scale.”? You really need to work on your reading comprehansion. I KNOW it’s all driven by economics.
As for American manufacturers being forceust everything in America being made in America. Then, a few enterprising manufacturers realized “Hey, if we have our products made overseas and shipped here, our profit margins will go up since our competitors are still paying high labor costs”. So, they made “conscious decisions” as you put it, to outsource. Then they realized “Hey, now we can slaughter our competition by decreasing our retail pricing”. Eventually more and more manufacturers catch on, and retail prices drop. Pretty soon, the last hold-outs find that in order to stay in business, they have to slash costs, and the only way to slash them enough is to outsource as well. These are the manufacturers I speak of when I say they’re “forced” to outsource.
Haven’t you noticed that the retail prices of consumer electronics and other products has dropped significantly in the past few years? Haven’t you tried to get a job in the last 2 years? Haven’t you been watching Lou Dobbs on CNN?
Yes, it matters VERY MUCH where a product is made. When it says “MADE IN CHINA” or “HECHE EN MEXICO” (or anywhere else outside the U.S.) it’s the same as saying “MORE AMERICANS OUT OF WORK”.
Forcing American workers to compete with those in other coutries who pay $150 per month in rent (vs. $1200 here) is not my idea of a level playing field, friend. Those in China and Mexico can live comfortably on a much lower income because their expenses are so low. Let’s just both pray that you never lose your job to someone overseas and then have to try to make the mortgage and keep a roof over the heads of your loved ones with ZERO coming in. Let’s hope that your replacement job at McDonald’s pays enough to put your kids through college and pay their medical bills.
I’m only making ONE point (so PLEASE listen up!): Outsourcing costs Americans their jobs, and that is NOT a good thing for Americans. PERIOD.
FWIW,
Who ever said “the customer is ill informed because they don’t care?” That doesn’t even make sense. Please re-read my post more carefully. And what’s all this stuff about “you need to really go out and really look into the issues involved; because its not customer demand its actually economics of scale.”? You really need to work on your reading comprehansion. I KNOW it’s all driven by economics.
As for American manufacturers being forced to outsource - allow me to school you: Years ago, most everything in America was being made in America. Americans were working, and all was good. Then, a few enterprising manufacturers realized “Hey, if we have our products made overseas and shipped here, our profit margins will go up and we’ll be rich, since our competitors are still paying high costs for American labor”. So YES, the first companies then made “conscious decisions” as you put it, to outsource. Then they realized “Hey, now we can slaughter our competition by decreasing our retail pricing”. Eventually more and more manufacturers caught on, and retail prices dropped. Pretty soon, the last hold-out manufacturers found that in order to stay in business, they have to slash costs, and the only way to slash them enough is to outsource as well. These are the manufacturers I speak of who are they’re “forced” to outsource.
Haven’t you noticed that the retail prices of consumer electronics and other products has dropped significantly in the past few years? Haven’t you tried to get a job in the last 2 years? Haven’t you been watching Lou Dobbs on CNN?
Yes, it matters VERY MUCH (to our national economy and well-being) where a product is made. When a product says “MADE IN CHINA” or “HECHE EN MEXICO” (or anywhere else outside the U.S.) it’s the same as saying “MORE AMERICANS UNEMPLOYED”.
Forcing American workers to compete with those in other coutries (who pay $150 per month in rent vs. $1200 here) is not my idea of a level playing field, my friend. Those in China and Mexico can live comfortably on much fewer dollars because their expenses are so low. AMERICANS HAVE HIGHER LIVING EXPENSES THAN THE CHINESE AND MEXICANS.
Let’s just both pray that you never lose your job to someone overseas and then have to try to make the mortgage and keep a roof over the heads of your loved ones with ZERO coming in. Let’s hope that your replacement job at McDonald’s pays enough to put your kids through college and pay their medical bills when they’re sick.
I’m only making ONE point (so PLEASE listen up!): Outsourcing costs Americans their jobs, and that is NOT a good thing for Americans. PERIOD.
good morning! (Saturday work sucks)
thought i’d pop in. rare to see real discussions. anyway have to admit i’d say “the customer is ill informed because they don’t care”. i saw some interviews on tv (sorry, not CNN - never had cable). people were surprised American brand was made in China. but then they said “Oh well. i need it”. imo we consider too many luxuries as Needs. sorry to say my own family does this too.
sometimes when i go to stores studying product people will ask questions. guess my studying makes them figure i can help. whenever i mention the thing is made overseas, they usually say No, its a (insert American brand name). when i explain, they dont care. just shrug their shoulders.
so i dont believe people really care. theyre happier not knowing. ignorance is bliss and all that. even when you try to explain how it hurts them in the end, they either dont get it or still dont care. long term stuff isnt as important as immediate gratification.
please continue 