But really...what IS industrial design?

Design Discussions general design discussion
1

I am trying to figure out what industrial design ‘is’. (I’m sure all ID students and professionals are on the same quest…maybe some have found their own answers, and each will have their own) I’m looking for your response please.

I consider myself an industrial designer (even if just for the sake of rationalizing my 4 yr education in the field). Currently, I am instructing an ID class for children; I am having this conversation with them and am finding that my views (of what ID is and could be) are not as traditional as the rest. The first day of class when I asked a class of 9-14 yr olds their first response is posters (of course a hundred responses soon followed). Who am I to say posters are not ID? And I haven’t.

*FOR EXAMPLE:
Core 77’s website comes up when you type in the question on a search engine. It leads you to an article entitled “What is ID and why should I care?” saying this particular designer’s goals are to: “1) to make the product attractive and 2) to make the product not be a pain in the
neck.”

IDSA’s website claims in more broader terms, “Industrial design is the professional service of creating and developing concepts and specifications that optimize the function, value and appearance of products and systems for the mutual benefit of both user and manufacturer.”

I also came across this internal dillema -persay- when I gave a tour of the ID dept of my art/design school for an open house last fall. I turned the tour over to a professor who lectured on the industrial designers role of making things ‘cool, stylish and beautiful.’ And to some designers, that is their goal (and I will respect that), but to narrow down the potential of the
entire field to ‘cool, stylish, beautiful products’ is quite degrading in my
opinion.

Please share your opinions (with a brief background of your ‘position’ in the field of ID).

Thanks for your feedback. (My students thank you too.)

2

I don’t see the benefit in debating the definition of a field that is well recognized. IDSA’s description is not only accurate, it reflects the majority opinion of Industrial Designers who are a part of its organization.

According to it’s description, designing posters would definitely not qualify as Industrial Design. I doubt you will find any Industrial Designers that would argue that point.

However there are many new “spinoff” professions that are less well understood. For instance, if you read the threads on Yahoo groups “AIGA Experience Design” you will find a long debate regarding its definition.

I can’t help but wonder if the “poster” comment from your students came from the apparent similarity between the titles “Commercial Art” vs. “Industrial Design” or even by the subclassification of ID as Commercial Art.

3

I think the “cool stylish” comment was just to keep the kids satisfied, just like how a parent will tell their children stories that are obviously not true, but works on the kids. I won’t take that seriously though.

Of course if an adult, after been through some years of ID education really feels that ID is about making things look cool, then either that he hasn’t learnt anything, or he’s a car design student who only cares about the styling of a vehicle.

To me, ID is broader and deeper than I ever thought it is. I have come to realise that aesthetic is never the main concern, in fact, it is the minor concern. ID designers are the unique bunch of people who decide what something will do, and how it happens. The engineers worry about making it happen the way we want it to be :laughing:

The aesthetic often comes after the functional and economical aspects have been met. Often the aestheric is a result of the functional elements the product, and not there just because it makes it look “cool”… it never does.

So I am a very “form follows function” kind of guy. I won’t call myself a designer until the day I get a real job after graduation.

4

“La creativita, come uso finalizzato della fantasia e dell’invenzione, si forma e si transforma continuamente. Essa esige una intellegenza pronta ed elastica, una mente libera da preconcetti di alcun genere, pronta a imparare cio che gli serve in ogni occasione e a modificare le proprie opinioni quando se ne presenta una piu giusta.
L’individuo creativo e quindi in continua evoluzione e le sue possibilita creative nascono dal continuo aggiornamento e dall’allargamento della conoscenza in ogni campo.”- Bruno Munari 1977

Roughly translated:
“Creativity as an end function of fantasy and invention forms and transforms continually. It demands a ready and flexible intelligence, a mind free of preconceptions of any kind; ready to learn anything served at any occasion and to modify its own opinions when they are proven wrong.
The creative individual is then in continual evolution and his creative possibilities are born from the continuous updating and widening of knowledge in every field.”

I think if you work this way and you are considering, learning from, and using the industrial process in your work as a maker of objects, than this is an interesting point of departure.

5

I agree that IDSA’s definition is quite accurate and ‘reflects the majority view’. But it is worth emphasizing that it is the broad nature of the definition that attributes to my (and other’s) agreeance with the definition.

IN RESPONSE TO: “designing posters would definitely not qualify as Industrial Design. I doubt you will find any Industrial Designers that would argue that point.”

I, on the contrary, will argue that posters are and could be ‘ID’ (from several perspectives and in the proper context). For instance, exhibit designers, many of whom were trained as and consider themselves industrial designers, find graphics integral to their work. In utilizing graphics appropriately they can emphasize their varying forms of communication beyond the form and function of a space or product. Posters, of course may seem a lay-man’s term for the sophisticated graphics of today, but if you look through their history you will find that they were extremely influential in bringing about and promoting the concept of mass production not only of the graphic image but of ideas that bring society together as a whole (and in later lives, they sell the IDesigners’ products whether it be a toaster, a car or a sincere contribution to society via product, space or system.) “Creating and developing… that optimize…” was also noted in IDSA’s definition…Can posters truely fill that role? It depends on context and experience of user and manufacturer.

And I guess it all comes down to the ‘be open-minded, resourceful and creative’ approach that ‘J’ mentioned. Thanks J.

Returning back to the IDSA definition, also worthy of emphasis is the phrase ‘for the mutual benefit of both user and manufacturer.’ It places an importance (in my opinion) on the experience of this ‘creation’ (for lack of a better term) that has materialized from the industrial design process. Beyond the sometimes to emphasized benefit of money, the design process a designer must ‘endure’ is an educational endevor (for the student or professional). Hopefully each new ‘creation’ will offer new challenges, new problems and new enrichments that the designer will creatively and intelligently decifer and then offer to the consumer (and to society!). I guess that is the idealist speaking. I honestly believe that what is so special about industrial design is that ‘reach:’ that ability to see beyond the immediate and see the possibility for impact. We have the power to positively influence the daily lives of ‘the masses’ through the creation of these products, spaces and systems (and some designers deserve to be commended on doing just that).

IN RESPONSE TO: “I can’t help but wonder if the “poster” comment from your students came from the apparent similarity between the titles “Commercial Art” vs. “Industrial Design” or even by the subclassification of ID as Commercial Art.”

Yes. It probably did. Industrial? Commercial? Another opportunity to dissect and decifer linguistics? And to initiate a public awareness campaign of what it is IDesigners actually do? …it is an endless cycle and a good point.

IN RESPONSE TO: “However there are many new “spinoff” professions that are less well understood. For instance, if you read the threads on Yahoo groups “AIGA Experience Design” you will find a long debate regarding its definition.”

Yes, I guess this is why I didn’t feel it was necessary to post a question like this earlier…it is infinitely debatable and discussable. In many regards, this vague open-ended position/title/profession drew us creative-minded folks to the stage to design our own position in the field. And that (if approached with some sense of responsibility) is what I find most exciting about ID.

-Sorry for such a long response… I couldn’t let it go without giving it some attention. Thanks for your responses.

6

to molested_cow:
you are a designer every day in everything that you do…
you compose an outfit each morning to wear, you organize and prepare food to eat, you reply to your environment by____… you yourself construct how you present yourself to the world. AND you are studying industrial design therefore going through the rigamorol conceptual design exercises we all must go through. You are a designer. Don’t wait on the job and salary for a title that you already deserve -that is if you want the title.

all industrial designers will say ‘industrial design is all around you’

well…so are designers.

7

Like I said, I realised that ID is more than what I thought, which used to be just being able to conceptualize ideas. It takes a whole lot more to be a Industrial Designer, not just any designer. You need to have knowledge about human factors, userability, research, manufacturing technology and more… That will help you to produce a design that not only satifsy the client’s ever low budget, but also the market demand.

By saying designer I meant professional industrial designer, someone who has the capability and experience to deliver what is needed by the targeted market. I’m not going to a professional designer with years of experience and address myself as a designer because I simply lack the experience that I need to be in the professional field. I’ll say that I am a design student. Don’t worry, I’ll know that I’m a designer when I become one.

That’s my view on ID, so I will expect more that I don’t know about, which leaves me room to improve.

Your definition of “designer” is more like someone who can decide for yourself, which is basically everyone in the world. I truely wish more people are able to make decisions for themselves, especially those who are trying to become a designer.

Yes ID is all around us, but not many people do understand that. People tend to take ID for granted, not even knowing that it exists and thus don’t understand the value of ID. Even engineers who work with products everyday tend to understand ID as just “product dressers”. Some designers told me that educating the engineers about ID is important cus it makes it a lot easier for them to understand what your persistance for something is based on and not just trying to make something look cool.

So this is just my 2 cents… got to earn it back then :slight_smile:

8

good quote, J.

imo “industrial design” is just that. design for industry. IDSA definition is sufficiently necessarily broad to cover this. and as industrial processes evolve so does Industrial Design.

further imo ID is intended to benefit industry first. why? simple. its industry that hires us, compensates us and makes our livelihood possible. this does not mean we ignore the consumers needs. on the contrary, ID has the thankless (and too often thats literally speaking) task of playing devil’s advocate. industry will always want to manufacture product at its cheapest leading to tunnelvision concerns for industrial processes and efficiencies. but ID is there to remind industry that w/out a consumer-friendly product there is no consumer. and w/ no consumer there IS no market, no profit, and hence no company.

in the early days ID was simple. but as more processes and product categories enter the niche fields increase. fine. in the end there is still a mass-production process that needs to be reminded its not an end in itself. not a popular position to be in. maybe explains why so few companies elevate ID within. i’ve certainly had my run-ins with those who didnt see the value. at those times i reminded them i was hired not to put shape to function, but to speak for the consumer. and unlike everyone else, i was paid almost entirely to voice that opinion on their behalf.

9

Frankly, after close to 20 years in industry as a designer, I find most designers, especially the new generation now, tend to grossly overestimate the absolute need for their specific skills and services. That few even inside this tribe can agree on what exactly constitutes ID only aggravates the confusion of what essentially has become a pastiche occupation of sorts, desperately borrowing from a number of related established professions, such as engineering, the fine arts, crafts, marketing, psychology, and so on, to prop itself up.

Many industries do very well without trained product designers for the simple reason design has never firmly stood its ground in the world of business as perhaps Raymond Loewy envisioned it, actually decreasing in true influence since those (heady) days where everything still seemed possible. An industrial designer, had schools tried to maintain certain standards and a clear focus, could and indeed should have been to mass-produced goods what an architect is to the built environment, i.e. a respected and visionary leader on every single project, basically running the show, not a portfolio-toting, insecure job beggar.

That rarely happens today even in architecture, a profession with roots in Antiquity, let alone product design which was only officially born in the 20s.

So, yes, of course kids can only see IDers making products “cool”, but coolness is quickly discarded and forgotten in today’s Culture of the Cheap where any residual idealism to use design as a strong, progressive force for the greater good is quickly mopped by cost-cutting and market-growth agendas.

I don’t know what I would answer the kids, happy as I may be with my own personal achievements in ID over the years, because I realize mine is a relatively unique case and I was not able to make any durable changes to the system itself. Design is still considered on a cosmetic base or, worse, a minor talent many engineers already have. After all, it’s hard for us to scientifically quantify our creativity versus that of other players in the product development game. And we do live in the age of reason, where science was supposed to have answers to everything, right?

If it’s the satisfaction of making even the slightest difference in a single person’s life, designers are not in a unique position to do this, and not unique in creating products, or - sorry to say - even necessarily better products than others toiling in offices and factories the world over with similar goals in mind.

ID has too many media actors, stars and prima donnas to qualify as anything “serious” in the eyes of most seasoned business figures. Too many mannered egotistical individualists with personal agendas pretending to speak for the flock and slowly leading us to utter irrelevance in what professional standing is concerned.

There are countless easier and just as interesting ways to make a living without having to always re-label oneself, the kids should at least know that.

10

And you said you were happy with your life as a designer…

I think not…atleast by that post. You come off as depressed, bitter, and burnt out on the whole thing.

There are companies out there who do see ID as the road to the future, and willing to pay for the value we as designers add to the product development cycle. You just have to find them, but that is easer said than done.

11

I think Realistic sounds realistic and not bitter or angry at all. Bitter-colored glasses, Designer?

12

Okay, y’all wrote way too long of replies…I’m at work so I’ll just answer the original question…

What is Industrial Design…

“Industrial Designers solve written or verbal problems visually”

simple but true

13

MK you’re looking at ID as a wide-open field, and it’s not. “Design” may be, but as soon as you put “Industrial” in front of “Design,” you’re creating a specific category that has beneficial shared cultural meaning.

Is “Industrial Design” wide open in comparison with other design disciplines? Sure, and perhaps that’s part of the credibility problem that “Realistic” is pointing out.

That’s why I think subclassifications are beneficial, and it’s also why I consider myself an “Experience Designer” today despite my background in Industrial Design and my career as an Interaction Designer. All of these have different meanings and expectations that are useful when discussing what I can offer in the design process.

14

“Solving problems visually” is frequently how Graphic Designers describe their profession, but it is not appropriate for ID. Industrial-Design does not always produce visual artifacts. This is why “processes” are a part of IDSA’s definition. Also, problems are not always “written or verbal.” In many cases problems are discovered and/or solved as a part of the design process.

15

No…Just realistic based on my experiences.

You just have to find the clients who see ID as a tool or way to build market share and dominance and not an expense. Then to prove time and time again that ID is more than making “pretty objects” or “drawing pretty pictures”. If you spent 20 years working for clients of bosses that saw ID as only stylists and nothing more, then I could see having the views that Realistic has. But how can you say he/she does not seem somewhat “beaten- up” and hurt that they could not live up to what they thought ID was.

simple reason design has never firmly stood its ground in the world of business as perhaps Raymond Loewy envisioned it, actually decreasing in true influence since those (heady) days where everything still seemed possible



a respected and visionary leader on every single project, basically running the show, not a portfolio-toting, insecure job beggar.

If you prove to the client that you can be trusted and looked at a strategic level then you as the lead/senior designer will be the visionary leader heading the multidisciplinary development team. Otherwise you will be the portfolio totter.

but coolness is quickly discarded and forgotten in today’s Culture of the Cheap where any residual idealism to use design as a strong, progressive force for the greater good is quickly mopped by cost-cutting and market-growth agendas.

This depends on the quality of clients your firm attracts. If you are attracting clients who see cutting costs as the only way to grow profit margins, then this is true. However if you attract clients who recognize ID as a powerful tool bridging the gap between Marketing and Engineering it is another story. For instance there is a sporting goods manufacture who released an item last spring where they lost $5 on every one sold, just to have the publicity and attention that the design would bring to the brand. Sales on the other 30 products went up 150% far surpassing the money lost.

We have clients coming to us on a weekly basis saying. “We have never used outside firms to develop new products, but we need help to be more like Target and Apple.” or some form of that comment. Design is once again moving to the for front of the consumers eyes. The companies who want to lead see this, the ones who are content following in the footsteps only want to stay in the game making their money through lower quality materials, labor, and over head, ie cutting costs.

After all, it’s hard for us to scientifically quantify our creativity versus that of other players in the product development game. And we do live in the age of reason, where science was supposed to have answers to everything, right?

This is were quantitative and qualitative research comes into play. Take a concept designed by the clients engineers, and take a concept designed by ID. Let the future consumers descide, and you will have the scientific and mathmatical data to prove your contribution and value to the project.

Back the initial question.
IMO ID is the voice of the consumer during development. It is our responsibility to discover, present, and keep in constant view the true needs of the user and consumer. While bridging the gap and brining togather marketing, engineering, manufacturing, and managment during the research, planing, design, engineering, and implimentation phases.

Simply a creative mediator specializing in discovering, interpreting, and communitating the needs and desires of consumers and end-users during the development of products, services, and even community centers.

16

i think theres alot of truth in Realistic’s comments. when i read “No…Just realistic based on my experiences” from someone with so little real experience i cant help but laugh. that is until the all the “for instances” start as if someone w 10 or 20 years hasnt been there and done that.

17

I know I have now 2 years experience, YKH that is why I put my experience. However I have seen the difference that the quality of the clients makes to the designers outlook and the firms potential for growth. And anyone who is working with clients who are only looking at product development in terms of “How much will the ID cost me” will soon if not currently trying to under cut the Chinese “design firms”.

I just was not going to let this posters view contaminate the views of this industry. Yes most people have more experience than me, but as is obvious with all the negative postings on here few have had the opportunity to work for client who are appreciative of your contributions, and view ID as a partner in the growth of the company. How many lead/senior designers (after 2 years) out there have had a client call them and have them sit in on interviews for the for the clients new “Head of New Product Development”, or have a client pay for you to stay in Vegas for a week so you could attend and contribute to their team building, and 5 year strategic planning meeting, Or fly you to Tokyo for the unveiling of their new product line. Or have a client release a product with the sales exceeding their expectations, and then give the firm a 5 year exclusive contract and 5% of the additional sales.

That is how ID should be seen, and when working with the right clients it can be. That is all I was trying to get across.

If Realistic is right, and many of you feel he is, then why not just pack up shop and leave the profession. Obviously it is “degrading”, “thankless”, “dying”, and something anyone in the development cycle could do. I guess we should close down all the schools, tell the software companies who are now rushing to improve applications to meet with ID’s surfacing needs, close all the design consultancies, and begin purchasing geometrical easy to manufacture low quality cheaply made products right.

18

Okay…how about…

“Industrial Designers solve written or verbal problems visually through industrial means”

Oh yea, last I knew IDSA does not define what ID is. IDSA is great for a social gathering with old classmates or co-workers and drink far away from the wife and kids.

If you want a definition or core ideal of ID, I suggest reading Bauhaus by Taschen. Good book, tells the curriculum and basic scope as it is, none of the hype that IDSA, university professors or magazine quotes from Rashid.

19

Realistic is on the money! After 10 years in this profession, and 14 in another, at times I find myself thinking of another change. I chose ID after my last career because that was were my talents lay. But the ego, self-proclaimed stardom and general lack of any cohesiveness in the profession have left me with one gut awful feeling. Don’t get me wrong, I very much enjoy what I do, but it seems that the profession is either self destructing or (more pitifully) lapsing into irrelevance.

What is ID? The aging body of an unrealized potential. ( Which can be the very worst kind of failure).

20

Designer, give your attacks a rest please. doubt i’m the only one who finds it arrogant and irritating. this should be an open forum. stifling honest discussion, especially from someone with long-time experience, isnt just rude, its un-designerly.