“…don’t hate them, study them.”

Thats the thing Yo. I don’t hate Apple, I hate the hype.

And I try to study them, thats why I started the discussion here. Because every time I have tried to talk to people that are “Pro Apple”, they go on the defense and call me a hater. Thats why I said that Apple is kind of a religion, its like trying to discuss if God exists with a fanatic.

Lol - theres definately different levels of people. I hadn’t purchased a single Apple product until I got my iphone. And my iphone was free - which leads me to believe even though I really enjoy it, I would have been just as content with a wide variety of other phones. Sure they might not have as exciting of a web browsing experience - but do I REALLY need to be surfing core77 from the bathroom stall? Probably not. :laughing:

The same thing has gone for when I had Mac’s at work. I liked my Macbook Pro - but enough to spend the extra money on it, absolutely not. I respect the design but also respect the fact that I’d rather spend half the money on a similarly equipped Dell and still have a few hundred extra to spend on something else.

But as far as trends go, Apple is definately on the upswing. If they can continue to release products that sell as well as the iPhone and ipod then they very well could be on their way to a consumer-electronics monopoly. Microsoft will never sort itself out of the niche it’s in today (synonomus with crap, but still used by 90% of the world). There’s always got to be a negative force to counteract Apples holiness. Bill Gates is essentially Steve Job’s wingman. :laughing:

I hear you, but then you got a lot hate. Everything is hyped. The first cave paintings where hype about some dude that could get more buffalo’s than the rest. It’s the human condition.

I just don’t get that. how can we expect consumers to pay for good design when designers won’t even do it. I would always gladly pay a premium for something that is done better (design, manufacturing, brand, whatever)… that is kind of the whole point. Otherwise we would all be driving Cavaliers to Walmart.

For me, a couple hundo is worth it over the life of the product. If you keep it for 3 years, $200 more is $1.28 a week extra… If that is too much to pay for good design vs a hunk o’ plastic, we should all retire now.

I just don’t get that. how can we expect consumers to pay for good design when designers won’t even do it. I would always gladly pay a premium for something that is done better (design, manufacturing, brand, whatever)… that is kind of the whole point.

Amen! They should have a sign with this quote in the front of every design school.

BMW: They are less reliable than Japanese or many American cars. Just look at Consumer Reports. Maybe yours is special. Most users will say that their car is more reliable if they like it (see Dyson, Apple, Audi users).

Good point Yo. A designers core responsibility is to create a product/service which can be sold at a higher price/better margin than the competitors. If your not doing this, you are an artist, not a designer…

The driving force behind buying a mac is the OS. I have zero reason to buy OSX when all my software is Windows based. I love OSX for it’s pretty little icons, but to buy a Mac to run Windows on full time is paying a few hundred extra dollars for a the nice plastic bezel, lots of hardware features that don’t work correctly under windows (or didn’t at the time I had my machine), the need for a dongle every time you want to hook up to a VGA source, etc. All of those cons (for a user like me) outweigh the design aspect.

When Mac builds a tablet PC (a better-than modbook solution) I’ll buy a Mac.

now thats a funny bar scene

I don’t agree with this, but I also don’t have a response right now.

eco.iD sings the praises of his BMW’s; nothing wrong with that and in fact, more power to him. But obviously there is more to it than just reliability. Thus, even if I could afford a BMW, I personally wouldn’t buy one. However, I’m also approaching mid-life so don’t hold me too that as the new M3 is a beast.

It’s really fundamental, Apple is just getting it correct.

Hardcore designers very rarely understand the power of marketing. For the most part we feel that it all starts with the idea we dream up and realize through a production based product and why not it’s damn hard to get to production status.

When really it starts with the marketing team because they are the voice of the company (product)
We may not want to believe this but ask anyone in real business what happens at “designers, show me what you have” meetings. More likely than not it’s the head marketing guy that has the designers go back for a re-design. If his command was correct and the product flies off of the shelf then he is the man and you are his prized tool, if it sucks then you are worthless and he needs a new design tool :slight_smile:

I like to start with the sales reps…they are a designers best friend because they know what the buyers want and if you give the buyers what they want then the marketing team gets what it wants when you sit down at the “show me what you have meeting”.

Jobs is the man because he has the interest, imagination, trust and at the end of the day the money of a lot of consumers. Kinda like Nike :wink:

What is very unique and what I believe is Apples strength is that when I as a consumer hear the name Apple in the vein of computers I think stylized, sweet product. When I hear Microsoft I think viruses, driver updates, verification codes I think software. I never get a warm and fuzzy feeling when I hear Microsoft but Apple? I want to go and buy something and furthermore I want to show people that I bought something.

That’s marketing.

Think about it, Apples product is a simple as it comes and in there lies it’s beauty. Heck look at my sig, that could be an Apple tag line all day long.

There is almost nothing new in design all due respect (referring to the link in the first post and there is a reason they say that designers are cannibals) but since it’s the creator of the iPod and the iPhone I’ll by that “air”. The question is, when will they sell me water.

Just an observation from a die hard PC user that is about to go over to the darkside and bite the apple while in the garden of eden.


Apple is about the user experience!

I agree with Yo,

Mr-914 I drive a BMW, and I can say it has been very reliable. Now that I said that, i’ll be on the side of the road when I leave the office today. You usually get what you pay for. I have more fun driving my Bimmer, than any previous car. Kinda like my Apple.

elhesto, you sound like a miserable brother. No mater what you do, or how well you do it there will always be haters. I have an IT friend, who has to admit the Apples look nicer, have and great stable UNIX interface, the ipod has changed the way we do things. He still won’t by an apple. So he sticks with his beige/black Dell…

how exciting right?

Truly, if I though there was a better product than the G5 or Air Book I would probably have it.

Do I know you? :laughing:

I think a case can be made for both sides of the fence, and depending on the product. For example - while the iPod defined what an Mp3 player should be, I don’t view it as any better of a product as my Sandisk Sansa. The Sansa (compared to the Ipod Nano of the time) had a user servicable battery, more durable finish, attractive UI with video/FM tuner/built in recording (the Nano had no video at the time), expandable memory via MicroSD, and cost $50 less. In situations like that the iPod wins out entirely on marketing. If you took the names off the products and blindly handed the specs and products to people, you’d probably find that most people preferred the one that was better equipped and cheaper.

BUT - now put the nameplate back on. Tell them it’s the newest Apple Ipod and suddenly they want it - BEFORE they even see it.

Theres clearly enough customers on earth to satisfy both groups, the die hard Apple junkies who can’t sleep the night before Macworld, and the people who would rather have a $400 Compaq laptop even if it’s a total piece of junk.

Cyberdemon. I agree with you.

I also know for a fact that Sandisk is not an innovator here. They hire outside firms to help design, and search for opportunities to cut costs. They are great at Flash drives and such, but they are not innovators of the MP3 market. Look at the quality of materials, the innovation, the interface, and the packaging.

Their are only a few leaders, but most are followers. Long Horn was touted… I meant Vista was touted, but copies a lot from Apple, and it may do a couple things better than OSX.

At the end of the day as a designer, I’m sticking with the leaders. In the long run it may cost me a bit more but I guarantee a few more smiles and tingly feelings.


I refuse to pay more for a Mac - seriously, they screw us Brits on the price.
Did you know how much extra they expect us to pay?

I’m happy using pc’s, I’m a geek, I like to be able to take things apart fiddle about with stuff.

I also hate the all designers use Mac’s sterotype. I hate being told what do. Sod it, I’ll do my own thing.