I agree with you that the “fact is, their stuff is cooler, more desirable, and more innovative than anything else in any of the categories they are in.” That’s why I buy it too.

Have you seen the latest commercials for the new DELLs. They’re trying to compete with the giant Apple hanging from the tree.

So RIM posted a design director position on coroflot. That’s interesting for sure, especially after keynote speech today with the pie chart figures.

“Jesus knew what was up.” Hahahahaha, damn that’s funny!

Not sure if any of you have read the article on Core77 by Jon Kolko:

Not really on topic from the perspective of Apple…but there is an awesome take away quote that I think applies:

The last sentence is key. Apple creates well designed product…like Ziba…like (insert design firm here). The difference is how it is presented. How it is sold.

robertcj…while I understand your angst towards the Cult of Mac…I appreciate the fact that they understand how it worksThey understand that it is MORE than the design that sells. “Build it, and they will come” doesn’t work anymore…sustainably.

I’m not (necessarily) a Mac fanboi, but I’ve used the product for so long that the interface(s) plays a significant part in how I am productive. I, as many others now do, would probably say the same thing if I used a Windows machine for most of my life. These are tools just as the tools I use when I wrench my car. What’s the difference between a Husky wrench and a Craftsman wrench and a MacTools wrench, when they all eventually do the same thing? And what is wrong with feeling really good about using/holding a particular wrench over another, especially if you’re the only one in the garage? Does your relationship with any particular wrench play any part to the experience of working on your car?

I think I went off topic.

Sweet responses. I’m sorry if I sounded angry. I’m not really. Maybe a little.

I seems like we agree on one thing, there is a “Myth of Mac” The Myth is the feeling that if you own a Mac product, you are ahead of the rest, you are part of the winning team, you are a part of something.
I believe this feeling sprung from when the Computer Nerds turned cool around 2000, web design was the shit and if you were a web designer you should have a Mac. Marry that to the start of the new design of Apple
I-Mac, the IPod etc. and you have an “idol” that people could aspire to be.

The combination of having kind of an “intelligent underground” feeling to the brand, and a design strategy that is clean and function based has made Apple what it is today.
And of course, a PR team that knows this and how to keep it that way.

Maybe that is the most interesting thing about Apples product launches now. Will the new products keep Apple in this privileged position or will it eventually bore people and make them want to switch to something else.

I agree with Yo that right now, there is nothing to switch to, and I agree with eco.iD that there might be some monopoly emerging here, making Apple into a new Microsoft.
One thing is for sure, just like in fashion, once an “underground” brand becomes to common, subcultures will emerge searching for something else to define them. I wonder what company will step up to do this?

Other companies that I think we could compare Apple with is Dyson or BMW. Dyson and BMWs cost more than their competitors, and are less reliable. However, they are distinctive in design and engineering. That makes the user feel something while they use it.

Unfortunately, Yo is right. One person doesn’t change a company unless they own it. Some consultants I’ve talked to have told me they present out there ideas to clients, but also safe options. The clients almost always go safe.

I’ve said this before with the iPod…I’m sure a consultant showed a client an MP3 player (or CD player, tape player, radio) with an extruded aluminum enclosure in pink. The client said, “whoa…that’s putting us over our price point!” and “whoa…no one else is doing this, what if the clients won’t pay extra!” I’m sure it happened hundreds of times. It took someone with vision to go, “let’s do it”. It turns our people do see the value.

I think the unfortunate thing today is that at Dell, Compaq, HP, Acer, Lenovo, whoever, there are designers presenting equally wild ideas. I don’t know what they are, but they are unique and exciting. Unfortunately, Apple nor anyone else has those concepts in production, so people are scared to take the chance. What I’d like to see is management that will trust design as much as Steve Jobs.

Here’s what we’ve said about the iAesthetic:

I partly agree with that. Clearly MacWorld has become a spectacle unrivaled in any other industry.

But I think the difference is that Apple is an unfolding saga. People are eager to see if Apple can continue to step it up. It’s more celebrity worship than marketing.

I am curious how well the Apple Air would have been received with a Microsoft Badge and Bill Gates doing the Keynote speech would have gone over?

Would it have had the same cache? Jobs is a salesman. A damn fine salesman dressed in a black mock-neck.

I agree with IP.

I predict that if another company had come up with a laptop with no serviceable parts, people would be having a fit. This just brings up memories of when the first Ipod’s batteries suddenly “died” after 18 months. :unamused:

I refuse to buy into the hype of any company, especially the self-righteous ones.

Oh, and on the whole wireless backup thing, I can back up my drives using Mozy or Carbonite and its accessible anywhere, not just at home. Not impressed.

Bring on the hate, fanbois! :smiling_imp:

I think we can all probably say it wouldn’t have, and with a pretty strong degree of certainty.

If it was a PC then the immediate gripes would be “I want a standard VGA connector built in, and 4 usb ports, and I need a replacable battery, and I don’t care if it weighs another pound because I want those features”

PC power users are typically bang for the buck die hards. They want maximum functionality and minimum sacrifices. It’s the reason they still make motherboards with parallel and even serial ports (I haven’t had a serial device since my 3 button mouse in the early 90’s).

The mac fanbase on the other hand is the polar opposite. They’ll sacrifice useful or even essential features for the slickness of the interface, the poshness of the design and materials, and the fact that it says “Apple” on it. It’s the same reason the iphone lacks a handful of useful and nearly standard features (User servicable battery, camera flash, ability to send MMS, etc) but still sells 20,000 units a day.

But I give them credit, they’ve gotten good at doing it and they’re making a piss load of money off it.

Other companies that I think we could compare Apple with is Dyson or BMW. Dyson and BMWs cost more than their competitors, and are less reliable.

I don’t own a Dyson, but I do own two BMWs. One E30 and an E46. They are totally reliable. The M20 engine is pretty much bulletproof. I’ve got over 210,000 miles on it. I’ve got friends with well over 350,000 miles on theirs’. I don’t understand how you can say BMWs are less reliable. How many cars do you see on the road from 1988 - 1991 like my E30? Not too many! The German’s had tighter tolerances than any other car company for an extended duration of time throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and even today. I know a whole subculture of E30 enthusiasts that would back me up on this. The 3 series is the best selling car in its class for over 17 years. Less reliable my ass!

Back on topic

dell ftw

everybody knows you have to wait 6 months with a new apple product, then it will be 25% cheaper with more memory.

Isn’t that what most brands aspire to achieve but are too busy fighting their own internal politics to get our of their way to do it? Like I said, don’t hate them, study them.

Switch that to Audi… we don’t cal that unreliable, we call it quirky.

Good point. When has a single brand had a show that big, the only one I can think of is the old GM Autorama’s from the 50’s-60’s

Nope. Because Microsoft has not built that level of trust with the consumer. People go to Microsoft for safe, reliable, acceptable. They are “slow followers” (Zune and Vista, I rest my case) That is the brand they have cultivated over decades. Coaching the consumer out of that would take decades. If they launched something like this with no brand adjustment, I don’t think it would do well.

“…don’t hate them, study them.”

Thats the thing Yo. I don’t hate Apple, I hate the hype.

And I try to study them, thats why I started the discussion here. Because every time I have tried to talk to people that are “Pro Apple”, they go on the defense and call me a hater. Thats why I said that Apple is kind of a religion, its like trying to discuss if God exists with a fanatic.

Lol - theres definately different levels of people. I hadn’t purchased a single Apple product until I got my iphone. And my iphone was free - which leads me to believe even though I really enjoy it, I would have been just as content with a wide variety of other phones. Sure they might not have as exciting of a web browsing experience - but do I REALLY need to be surfing core77 from the bathroom stall? Probably not. :laughing:

The same thing has gone for when I had Mac’s at work. I liked my Macbook Pro - but enough to spend the extra money on it, absolutely not. I respect the design but also respect the fact that I’d rather spend half the money on a similarly equipped Dell and still have a few hundred extra to spend on something else.

But as far as trends go, Apple is definately on the upswing. If they can continue to release products that sell as well as the iPhone and ipod then they very well could be on their way to a consumer-electronics monopoly. Microsoft will never sort itself out of the niche it’s in today (synonomus with crap, but still used by 90% of the world). There’s always got to be a negative force to counteract Apples holiness. Bill Gates is essentially Steve Job’s wingman. :laughing:

I hear you, but then you got a lot hate. Everything is hyped. The first cave paintings where hype about some dude that could get more buffalo’s than the rest. It’s the human condition.

I just don’t get that. how can we expect consumers to pay for good design when designers won’t even do it. I would always gladly pay a premium for something that is done better (design, manufacturing, brand, whatever)… that is kind of the whole point. Otherwise we would all be driving Cavaliers to Walmart.

For me, a couple hundo is worth it over the life of the product. If you keep it for 3 years, $200 more is $1.28 a week extra… If that is too much to pay for good design vs a hunk o’ plastic, we should all retire now.

I just don’t get that. how can we expect consumers to pay for good design when designers won’t even do it. I would always gladly pay a premium for something that is done better (design, manufacturing, brand, whatever)… that is kind of the whole point.

Amen! They should have a sign with this quote in the front of every design school.

BMW: They are less reliable than Japanese or many American cars. Just look at Consumer Reports. Maybe yours is special. Most users will say that their car is more reliable if they like it (see Dyson, Apple, Audi users).

Good point Yo. A designers core responsibility is to create a product/service which can be sold at a higher price/better margin than the competitors. If your not doing this, you are an artist, not a designer…

The driving force behind buying a mac is the OS. I have zero reason to buy OSX when all my software is Windows based. I love OSX for it’s pretty little icons, but to buy a Mac to run Windows on full time is paying a few hundred extra dollars for a the nice plastic bezel, lots of hardware features that don’t work correctly under windows (or didn’t at the time I had my machine), the need for a dongle every time you want to hook up to a VGA source, etc. All of those cons (for a user like me) outweigh the design aspect.

When Mac builds a tablet PC (a better-than modbook solution) I’ll buy a Mac.

now thats a funny bar scene