I cant help wonder why there wasn’t as much fuzz when Intel+Ziba showed their, 2.25 pound ( MacBook Air: 3pounds), 0.7inch (MacBook Air: 0.76inch) in May last year.
(Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)

Hey! wait, both internals were made by Intel. I bet the Ziba one never will be launched. Why compete with yourself?

And, why is Apple getting all the praise when it was Intel that made this awesome; I mean, Ives pretty much have the design down by now. Square box, round off the corners and sweet materials.

So, the design is not new or revolutionary (boring if you ask me), the technical package is old news and you need another computer to play a CD?
I wonder how long this Apple=God hype will continue?

Am I a hater or the only one trying to look at Apple the same way as I do with other products/companies? What do you think?

From that link, it’s clear that Intel meant for that to be a “reference design” mean’t to stimulate manufacturers into creating a new category of things we-must-have-but-just-don’t-know-it-yet. Looks like Apple is first out of the gate…But it’s also a sign that others will quickly follow. I agree that it’s unfair give them all the credit.

One was a prototype, one is a real product.

Thats the difference, besides all of the hype. There are lots of ultraportable notebooks, thats just Apples entry into it. Frankly the CD drive is a non issue. I haven’t had an optical drive in my Toshiba tablet since the day I bought it and it’s never been an issue. I carry all my media on a USB drive and any software I need to install can just as easily be downloaded from the internet.

So yes, you’re a hater. :laughing:

Yes it was a prototype. In May. No doubt in my mind that it could have turned into a product late last year.

My guess is it didn’t because Apple was the channel that Intel would sell most through.

Although my point was that it seems like Apple can get away with a lot more than any other manufacturer just because they are Apple. Apple is not about design, it is a PR phenomena. It is a hype. And I am not buying into it.

An example: You don’t hear anybody talk about that the Iphone has 1 day battery life. (My colleague’s 1 month old, fully charged Iphone died halfway through day one at CES) Why? Because nobody talks about it. Its like it is holy.

If 3 out of 10 mobiles needs to be replaced within two months (like they did in my studio) it would be considered crap. Nobody seemed to realize that if this happened with any other product they would talk a lot of shit about it. But they didn’t. They still defended it.
Apple is not just a brand anymore, it is becoming a religion. I am not a believer.


First off welcome to the Core77 forums!

For your first two posts on the forums to be as negative as they are I’d say you’re either an angry person or a PC type like the guy in the Apple commercials. Just kidding with you.

I use a PowerBook G4, 23" HD cinema display, Bluetooth mighty mouse, and tethered Apple keyboard at work and I own an iPhone. They’re all excellent products. Superior, I have no clue? Who cares?

I think this whole Apple phenomenon is all about PR. Apple obviously has an amazing marketing team. There’s always a major buzz about what’s next all over the Internet, news, magazines, water cooler, etc… I think their campaign for their products is all about PR tactics.

That being said, I’ll have to say I don’t like how their trying to take over every realm of the electronics industry, for example the revised Apple TV “Take 2” and the new movie rentals. Eventually it will be the TV or I should say flat panel display. In my opinion they’re trying to start a monopoly on the technology industry.

It’s not a religion, it’s the beginning of a monopoly.

I hear you. the problem is there is no other option right now. What are you getting a Dell? A Motorola Krzr? Be real. As soon as something better comes along I’ll switch brands.

As Bob Lutz once said (to paraphrase) “People would rather drive a car they love that doesn’t start once in awhile, that a reliable car they hate”. Apple is in that spot. I hate how scratched up my stuff looks after a day out of the box, how they are always shifting specs and prices, how their store “Geniuses” are snobs who in a lot of cases don’t know that much… fact is, their stuff is cooler, more desirable, and more innovative than anything else in any of the categories they are in. So I’ll put up with a short bat life for something I actually want, instead of a long battery life on something I loath (I use my blackberry as point in case, but it works with corporate email, so I have no choice, their complete product line ranges from barely acceptable to hideous, on a side note RIM posted a design director position on coroflot, so maybe that will change)

Maybe with Ed Boyd from Nike at Dell and Ray Riley (also from Nike) at Microsoft we will see some stuff in the next 24 months, but one guy doesn’t change a company… unless he owns it.

And that Macbook Air this thing is thin! Sure intel made it happen, but who had the nuts to lock in the manufacturing rights and bring it to market first? Shocker… and the Time Capsule? Genius. Sign me up for both. Don’t be mad. Be glad someone can innovate and give the rest of the industry a case study.

It’s all about how consumers think, they don’t buy rationally like they claim too. People post rationalize their purchases by quoting features like .7 inches thick but really they sold themselves by emotionally considering how this thing will reflect on them, and how it makes them feel. That’s why Apple can sell iPhones at 600 dollars and drop the price months later, those first people who bought’em didn’t care, they were buying trendsetter status, not the features, and that status couldn’t be bought at the 400 dollar price just like that status, and that membership into the mac cult can’t come from a great Ziba product. Great product is only the half of it, you’ve got to have that story that the consumer relates too. Jesus knew what was up. Now I’m gonna go trade in my Dell and Moto Krzr for a Mac, iPhone and some black Nike Cortezes.


I agree with you that the “fact is, their stuff is cooler, more desirable, and more innovative than anything else in any of the categories they are in.” That’s why I buy it too.

Have you seen the latest commercials for the new DELLs. They’re trying to compete with the giant Apple hanging from the tree.

So RIM posted a design director position on coroflot. That’s interesting for sure, especially after keynote speech today with the pie chart figures.

“Jesus knew what was up.” Hahahahaha, damn that’s funny!

Not sure if any of you have read the article on Core77 by Jon Kolko:

Not really on topic from the perspective of Apple…but there is an awesome take away quote that I think applies:

The last sentence is key. Apple creates well designed product…like Ziba…like (insert design firm here). The difference is how it is presented. How it is sold.

robertcj…while I understand your angst towards the Cult of Mac…I appreciate the fact that they understand how it worksThey understand that it is MORE than the design that sells. “Build it, and they will come” doesn’t work anymore…sustainably.

I’m not (necessarily) a Mac fanboi, but I’ve used the product for so long that the interface(s) plays a significant part in how I am productive. I, as many others now do, would probably say the same thing if I used a Windows machine for most of my life. These are tools just as the tools I use when I wrench my car. What’s the difference between a Husky wrench and a Craftsman wrench and a MacTools wrench, when they all eventually do the same thing? And what is wrong with feeling really good about using/holding a particular wrench over another, especially if you’re the only one in the garage? Does your relationship with any particular wrench play any part to the experience of working on your car?

I think I went off topic.

Sweet responses. I’m sorry if I sounded angry. I’m not really. Maybe a little.

I seems like we agree on one thing, there is a “Myth of Mac” The Myth is the feeling that if you own a Mac product, you are ahead of the rest, you are part of the winning team, you are a part of something.
I believe this feeling sprung from when the Computer Nerds turned cool around 2000, web design was the shit and if you were a web designer you should have a Mac. Marry that to the start of the new design of Apple
I-Mac, the IPod etc. and you have an “idol” that people could aspire to be.

The combination of having kind of an “intelligent underground” feeling to the brand, and a design strategy that is clean and function based has made Apple what it is today.
And of course, a PR team that knows this and how to keep it that way.

Maybe that is the most interesting thing about Apples product launches now. Will the new products keep Apple in this privileged position or will it eventually bore people and make them want to switch to something else.

I agree with Yo that right now, there is nothing to switch to, and I agree with eco.iD that there might be some monopoly emerging here, making Apple into a new Microsoft.
One thing is for sure, just like in fashion, once an “underground” brand becomes to common, subcultures will emerge searching for something else to define them. I wonder what company will step up to do this?

Other companies that I think we could compare Apple with is Dyson or BMW. Dyson and BMWs cost more than their competitors, and are less reliable. However, they are distinctive in design and engineering. That makes the user feel something while they use it.

Unfortunately, Yo is right. One person doesn’t change a company unless they own it. Some consultants I’ve talked to have told me they present out there ideas to clients, but also safe options. The clients almost always go safe.

I’ve said this before with the iPod…I’m sure a consultant showed a client an MP3 player (or CD player, tape player, radio) with an extruded aluminum enclosure in pink. The client said, “whoa…that’s putting us over our price point!” and “whoa…no one else is doing this, what if the clients won’t pay extra!” I’m sure it happened hundreds of times. It took someone with vision to go, “let’s do it”. It turns our people do see the value.

I think the unfortunate thing today is that at Dell, Compaq, HP, Acer, Lenovo, whoever, there are designers presenting equally wild ideas. I don’t know what they are, but they are unique and exciting. Unfortunately, Apple nor anyone else has those concepts in production, so people are scared to take the chance. What I’d like to see is management that will trust design as much as Steve Jobs.

Here’s what we’ve said about the iAesthetic:

I partly agree with that. Clearly MacWorld has become a spectacle unrivaled in any other industry.

But I think the difference is that Apple is an unfolding saga. People are eager to see if Apple can continue to step it up. It’s more celebrity worship than marketing.

I am curious how well the Apple Air would have been received with a Microsoft Badge and Bill Gates doing the Keynote speech would have gone over?

Would it have had the same cache? Jobs is a salesman. A damn fine salesman dressed in a black mock-neck.

I agree with IP.

I predict that if another company had come up with a laptop with no serviceable parts, people would be having a fit. This just brings up memories of when the first Ipod’s batteries suddenly “died” after 18 months. :unamused:

I refuse to buy into the hype of any company, especially the self-righteous ones.

Oh, and on the whole wireless backup thing, I can back up my drives using Mozy or Carbonite and its accessible anywhere, not just at home. Not impressed.

Bring on the hate, fanbois! :smiling_imp:

I think we can all probably say it wouldn’t have, and with a pretty strong degree of certainty.

If it was a PC then the immediate gripes would be “I want a standard VGA connector built in, and 4 usb ports, and I need a replacable battery, and I don’t care if it weighs another pound because I want those features”

PC power users are typically bang for the buck die hards. They want maximum functionality and minimum sacrifices. It’s the reason they still make motherboards with parallel and even serial ports (I haven’t had a serial device since my 3 button mouse in the early 90’s).

The mac fanbase on the other hand is the polar opposite. They’ll sacrifice useful or even essential features for the slickness of the interface, the poshness of the design and materials, and the fact that it says “Apple” on it. It’s the same reason the iphone lacks a handful of useful and nearly standard features (User servicable battery, camera flash, ability to send MMS, etc) but still sells 20,000 units a day.

But I give them credit, they’ve gotten good at doing it and they’re making a piss load of money off it.

Other companies that I think we could compare Apple with is Dyson or BMW. Dyson and BMWs cost more than their competitors, and are less reliable.

I don’t own a Dyson, but I do own two BMWs. One E30 and an E46. They are totally reliable. The M20 engine is pretty much bulletproof. I’ve got over 210,000 miles on it. I’ve got friends with well over 350,000 miles on theirs’. I don’t understand how you can say BMWs are less reliable. How many cars do you see on the road from 1988 - 1991 like my E30? Not too many! The German’s had tighter tolerances than any other car company for an extended duration of time throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and even today. I know a whole subculture of E30 enthusiasts that would back me up on this. The 3 series is the best selling car in its class for over 17 years. Less reliable my ass!

Back on topic

dell ftw

everybody knows you have to wait 6 months with a new apple product, then it will be 25% cheaper with more memory.

Isn’t that what most brands aspire to achieve but are too busy fighting their own internal politics to get our of their way to do it? Like I said, don’t hate them, study them.

Switch that to Audi… we don’t cal that unreliable, we call it quirky.

Good point. When has a single brand had a show that big, the only one I can think of is the old GM Autorama’s from the 50’s-60’s

Nope. Because Microsoft has not built that level of trust with the consumer. People go to Microsoft for safe, reliable, acceptable. They are “slow followers” (Zune and Vista, I rest my case) That is the brand they have cultivated over decades. Coaching the consumer out of that would take decades. If they launched something like this with no brand adjustment, I don’t think it would do well.