A bet

I bet you don’t hate Marketing as much as I do.

Pretty close!!! Care to elaborate?

let it out man

I have taken a buch of my own products to market, so to hate marketing is to hate a part of myself. I guess when you risk your own $$ you tend to be more market driven in the design phase, after all its your own $$ and lower risk is the name of the game.

Its not so much a hate of Marketing itself. It is a thorough and utter contempt for the heirarchy that is driven by current Marketing driven business models.

In other words…Marketing should not be driving ID.

If maketing (ie market research) is done well then it should riding shotgun at least. If done poorly (hey they have blue buttons with silver stars, so we MUST have them too) let them ride in the trunk.

Its the blue buttons and stars scenario that seems to be rampant in N/A Marketing circles.

It has driven me to the brink so many frigging times.

i love marketing. at the heart of many design problems i think the solution is equal parts marketing and design.

while i totally agree that marketing shouldn’t drive ID in a “me-too” way, and that sometimes classical marketing guys have only a backwards facing perspective on the consumer and market, i believe a good understanding of the power of marketing can be a designer’s biggest asset and partner in crime.

the key is to look at marketing i think as part of the design process. a crappy product cant be helped by good marketing (rarely) and marketing cant be slapped on after the fact as dressing.

R

I feel for you, sign of a sunset industry or lack of contact with the market place. Thats why so many break through products come from small outfits, they are part of the market, not getting the intel 3rd hand. How many market research teams just parrot what they hear others say? How many marketing types only go for drinks with their “peers”. We all do it and I mean ALL, designers are just as guilty as the rest. This is bad bad bad for new product design and developement, because all we get is tunnel vision and the comfortable answers.

zippyflounder: have you ever worked as a designer for a company with a marketing department?

Yup, ran pdd/r and d for excercise equipment company (well known) long time ago.

I bet you don’t hate Marketing as much as I do.



i love marketing. at the heart of many design problems

Just for clarification; I think ip_wirelessly’s comment was referring to the Marketing Department of a big corporation, rather than the activity itself.

In a consultancy we have to deal with them too, but we don’t have it nearly as bad as the in-house ID guys. We come into the company as paid ‘experts’ and they seem to listen to us more than they do their own designers, even if we’re singing the same song.

It’s odd. The in-house designers may have been pushing for something for years, but it’s only when we come in there suggesting the same thing that the Marketing guys (or Engineering) then believe it.

I have to say too, that Marketing guys come in all sorts of shades, and we have met many ‘enlightened’ execs that have a clear vision of what is needed and know that ID will help them accomplish it. -Look at the Steve Jobs/ Jonathan Ive story.

I have to say too, that Marketing guys come in all sorts of shades, and we have met many ‘enlightened’ execs that have a clear vision of what is needed and know that ID will help them accomplish it. -Look at the Steve Jobs/ Jonathan Ive story.

You’re right, PaulH…I was most definitely referring to corporate marketing. As I stated already, Marketing is needed. It just needs to change its current capacity.

My biggest problem with Marketing is that it seems to attract the fallout. The riffraff that couldn’t cut it in their original field. The old adage needs to change to:

Those who can’t do, enter Marketing.

I agree that there are very few true marketers practicing the science of marketing.

PDMA certification is helpful. Raise awareness at your company and put a few people through it as a pilot. Have them come back raving about how useful it was and have them spread the word virally. This will make your experience with marketing so much better.

But designers need to take some responsibility here. Don’t play the part of victim to marketing! For too long designers have been subservient, lazily allowing marketing to ‘own the customer’ and ‘do the research.’ Designers must step up and start taking ownership of those things. Designers need to help marketing focus on what they should be doing: sizing and identifying markets, and building strategies (that often include design) to target them. Plan on leading by example, they’re not just going to hand over the keys to the castle.

Agreed. Stupid is as stupid does.

An actual quote:

WOW!