45 Minutes EACH ?

Really impressive and inspiring. You do see a few shortcuts here and there for the 45 minutes chrono. The bounce outsole seems to be based on an existing picture. But damn, for just one of those renderings I would spend a day on each right now, really cool.

G.

Not to take anything away from the amazing renderings but in my opinion its a lot less important than some of you guys think it is. I am a apprentice at Reebok and I told one of the designers that he had some of the best renderings I seen, and he told me “the days of who has the best renderings are over.” When I was in school a pretty rendering was basically the end when it came to designing shoes. Now that I’m actually in the industry, pretty renderings is basically the beginning. Things like materials choice, molds, prototypes, marketing, production cost, production cost and did I mention production cost are far more important than renderings. At least here at Reebok people are a lot more concerned about sketching and your thought process behind your design. But I do have all of Cheng Kue renderings saved to my Harddrive it gives you something to aspire to.

rendering is one thing on my new year ‘to do’ list, or ‘to learn how to do’ list…

it might not be the be-all and end-all, but its a really cool way to pitch the idea to your team / mgmt / customer, before you actually start getting the thing sampled.

so yeah, expect me to post some horrible attempts at rendering on this forum over the coming months!

i agree with what you have said… BUT… For me, when i got into doing photorealistic renderings i was able to do them so accurate because i would study real shoes next to my computer and really look at how things are stitched together and the patterns overlayed and i would build my renderings so that my layers/groups represented a pattern piece. maybe thats not true for everyone but it really helped me understand a real shoe and not just a flashy sketch rendering with no stitching on the entire upper.

And, when i got my first job they had never had anyone be able to do renderings that well so i was able to save alot of sample $ by doing realistic renderings with the scanned leathers and colorways. Because like you said so much of it is about material choice, and for me its hard to look at a piece of leather in a swatch and really understand what it will look like on a shoe, especially with some of the character leathers. so when i can scan the swatch and apply it to a rendering that looks 90% like a real shoe, we can make pretty educated decisions on things like color and material without having to make samples to test leathers and colors.

So for me it was not so much about being impressive. the only people it really impressed was other students, but at work it was just plain useful.

Is there more to this than the pics people posted? That link someone posted just took me to the home page. In any event, these renderings are dope, but clearly some of the pieces were cut and pasted and probably altered color/texture-wise pretty easily as some of you had said. Rendering is cool, but there are DEFINITELY a milion other pieces to the puzzle to be mastered. Hot stuff though!

Nevermind. Found it. I’m gonna go ahead and poop my pants now.

Later,

-TH

What did you find Tony?

His Coroflot page or something more substantial, please share…

I however found this on Thomas Hartings’ blog…

They let him go?

i don’t know what i should be mmore scared of…

the tough times that may have led such talent to be let go, or the fact that i can’t touch this guy on skill and he’s unemployed. what hope do i have of scoring a job if HE’S on that same unemployment tip?!

partial self-deprication notwithstanding, i think there will always be a place for ultra-refined and beautiful renders. the usefulness in the workplace may not be where it was prior to all this technology and ability to create quick mock-ups, but if anything, it’s a sign of who’s competent and who’s excellent.

Sindri- I was just checking out his stuff on coroflot.

Stylerizal- My feelings exactly on all counts.

if anything, it’s a sign of who’s competent and who’s excellent.

…at rendering.

Don’t confuse great rendering with great design - it’s presentation and artistry.

Its a bonus if someone is great at rendering but they have to be a superb designer first and foremost.

I agree he’s very talented, the Adi redundancies looked to me to be more of a restructuring than a credit crunch thing anyone from Adi confirm this?- Adi has always had a big team in Germany.

I wish I had time to learn to render, will get round to it eventually I guess.[/quote]

I agree with you,shoenista.

But I have to say that when you´re looking for a job you have to sell your work to the recruiters,you have to show them what they want to see,this world is really competitive,and if you give them the “wow factor” it´s really easy to get that job.

Absolutely…

if anything, it’s a sign of who’s competent and who’s excellent.

…at rendering.

not to nit-pick, start any beef or anything of the sort, but i really do beg to differ. i truly believe that rendering/drawing ability is one of the disciplines and requirements that make for a great designer. actually, it’s a prerequisite. colleges all have portfolio reviews to crit your work and measure your skill, and if your work isn’t up to par, you don’t get in to the program.

a designer can have poor ideas, but still be a designer but the converse of that idea doesn’t work because a person can have great ideas but that doesn’t make him a designer.

what seperates the designers from the thinkers is skill.
what seperates the designer from the artist is the thought process.

designers have skill and artistry to be able to not just conceptualize, but convey an idea and thought process through a medium. the better you are at translating thoughts into tangible images and illustrating them into a language that the masses can understand and appreciate, the better a designer you are.

i can think of a great building, that doesn’t make me an architect.
i can draw a box, call it a building, and write the qualities i envision it to posses, but that makes me a marginal architect at best…but if i can render it in a way that shows that i understand and can convey what i see in my mind’s eye, then i’m heads and shoulders above the rest of the pack…or at least where i’m supposed to be if i want to offer a great service.

lack of skill is lack of skill, plain and simple.

no beef, but i think your thought process/explanation is flawed. A designer is a designer because of their ideas, not necessarily the presentation/execution of those ideas. Sure, great visual communication helps, and no doubt can be key in getting a job, but in real life, i’d venture to say a large amount of design happens via less than glossy sketches/renderings.

maybe i’m missing out on what you are saying, but at the very least, i feel i can comment on the OP sketches vis a vis the footwear industry (which i’ve been involved in for more than 8 years).

In my own experience (obviously I can’t comment on the experience of others), a greater percentage of work I’ve ever done has come from the idea, and a loose sketch transferred to a fty. The key is understanding the design of footwear, patterns, production, etc. and not really rendering. A while back I was working at a company where I regularly did 10-20 uppers, and 5-10 outsoles per season. Given the extremely high workload (all that in addition to line management of 400+ SKUs and 120 days in asia on development) resulted in little time/need for fancy renderings. More often than not I banged out 3-5 concepts for each final design, in simple sketch lineart, cutting down the process, and using my own experience and knowledge such that each concept was a full realized product, able to be produced, considering construction, details, etc. In that period I don’ think i ever did a single rendering.

In the end, it’s about efficiency and communication. If you can communicate with less lines, use less concepts to get to the final and have saleable results, is that not preferred (business-wise) to doing endless concept sketches that couldn’t work/don’t sell, and spending 45min+ (still I don’t see where the 45min came from in the OP post, there’s no notes on the renderings), to get something equivalent?

Long post, sorry, but hopefully i’ve made a somewhat coherent point.

To summarize, I’ll say what many a prof and boss has said - “we’re in the business of making shoes, not drawings (renderings)”. As such it should be understood that renderings/sketches, etc. are a means to an end, and not the end goal itself.

still, as I’ve said before, nice renderings indeed. but important, or as evidence of a great designer- not so much (in general, not personally to Cheng Kue).

R

(still I don’t see where the 45min came from in the OP post, there’s no notes on the renderings)

here’s the link to Cheng’s coroflot page…he says it himself in the comments section.

no problem at all with your response, mr. kuchinsky. if anything, i welcome a response and rebuttle to my comment. that’s why we’re on this forum, right? to learn and exchange ideas.

maybe we are failing to grasp eachother though, so i guess i’ll clarify my stance (which may sound a little elitist, but in my opinion, it’s just me being blunt and honest).


all i’m saying is i feel a little skill should be required before someone can call themselves a designer. if it was all conceptual, then what’s the point of schooling? it’s a little disheartening to read a comment along the lines of, ‘i guess i should learn to render’ coming from a fellow designer, especially when i spend every night on the computer trying to learn, refine and improve on my skills.

i agree with your statement though, that if one can convey an idea with less lines, then so be it, but i guess where my problem lies is with the fear that someone take that mentality to the extreme. i mean, can one call themselves an industrial designer without knowing how to draw? again, it’s coming off as elitist, but in all honesty, it’s coming from a genuine passion for our field.

i know we’re going off-topic with these comments now, and verging on a discussion on who is and who isn’t qualified to call themselves an industrial designer, but that’s not something i want to touch with a 10-foot pole. i have no right to judge that…but i do have my opinions on the topic.

I agree with much of what you say here (my boss is very similar to what you have described as your process in the footwear business), but i also agree with styleRIZAL as he is more relating to how I work at the job. its clear that the rendering does not make the designer, but to me it maybe also depends on the type of rendering we are talking about maybe? if i render a shoe and the colorway is a design choice and the leathers and trim are a design choice (as in actual leathers, materials and pantone #'s used in the rendering), then is that rendering not more informative and thought conveying than a line drawing than a line drawing with a spec sheet? And that can become more apparent when we as designers are conveying ideas to our own internal sales and marketing people, and not just the factory.

Again, i can only comment on my own experience, but having a boss who a is little more “old school” and myself being more digital, i think its a somewhat valid point.

also i should point out that i will only do renderings on certain projects, mostly ones that are on all new equipment. Carryovers… definitely no time to do the renderings, and even if there is time its just not worth it.

it’s a little disheartening to read a comment along the lines of, ‘i guess i should learn to render’ coming from a fellow designer, especially when i spend every night on the computer trying to learn, refine and improve on my skills.

Why? The most important thing is your ideas. I agree with Billymenut a fancy photoshop render might put you to the front of the queue with a recruitment consultant, but a design manager will still be able to spot talent even if its a sharpie on the back of an envelope. Thats why we go on and on about why hand sketching is so important. It is the ideas and not the medium in which they are delivered.

I haven’t yet learned to render in photoshop, no; perhaps if I didn’t get any work then it might give me a kick up the ass that I needed to make me learn. But I’d still like to learn - for the wow factor. It does impress people, I agree.

From a design managers p.o.v. when I was recruiting it wasn’t a case of who was the best photoshop artist, it was a competition to see who was the most creative and who had the most amazing and manufacturable and wearable ideas. I’d want to see the whole of the design process. I’d also like to see storyboards - I like to see the thought process - where did your ideas start - what are your influences?

i totally agree with you, shoenista. it IS about the idea more than the picture. i think where we fail to connect is on the level of skill one needs in order to call themselves an industrial designer in the first place.

i don’t know…maybe it’s just me being idealistic and wanting the best for my fellow designers.

but then again, i don’t even work in the field, so i can’t really speak from experience from like guys/gals. if anything, i guess i should draw solace from the fact that i don’t have to render like mr. kue to have a shot at a job.

I do renders because I want to test myself,I do renders because it is funny,I do renders because every time that you spend with it your level grows,I dont do renders because some people could think Im a 1st class designer.

do you know how much time do I spend rendering at the office?

2seconds…believe me…plastic effect with Corel Photopaint,and do you know why?,because there´s not time to render.

I make few presentations rendered with photoshop,just for give to the clients the “wow factor”,but the rest of the collection is made it with photopaint.