What 3d printer do you use at work?

I bought a dimension bst1200 for my office back in 2004 it was $30k and pretty damn amazing for the time, it was a workhorse and we ran that thing daily until the company was sold in 2012 with very little down time. We maintained a service contract on it and knew the local techs well but i have no complaints about the quality of the machine the techs were usually only in our office for scheduled maintenance and upgrades there was very little unexpected downtime with that machine. I later purchased the same machine for a college i was teaching at and advising on the build out of their makerspace… educational pricing was nearly 50% less than retail.

In 2008 i bought an objet eden 350v for the same office. I think after the finance charges the price was close to $250k. the output from that machine was stunning but the service contract and consumables were very incredibly expensive and the machine went down regularly (service contract was $8k a year and didn’t cover parts). The power wash station that was required to clean the parts was a joke and went down as often as the printer.

In 2013 I bought a makerbot rep2x for another office, it was a nightmare and makerbot took it back.
Then I bought a first gen form 1 printer for the same office another disaster that eventually went back to FormLabs.

In 2014 i bought a davinci 1.0 from XYZ for myself, i walked in to a micro center and bought it off the shelf for $400. it had approximately the same quality and build envelope as the first Dimension machine i bought for $30k. I was happy with it for about 6 months, it was not a solid workhorse and became very finicky and prone to problems which might be OK with a hobby level machine but not when you need to depend on it, now it collects dust.

in 2014 I bought the XYZ Nobel for myself, it was terrible and it went back to XYZ.

Early last year i purchased the Form 2 and haven’t had a single problem with it yet, the build volume is only 1/4 the capacity of my old objet and it only prints in a single material so you have support joints to deal with but for the price difference i can accept those things without any complaint, the print resolution is as good as i ever remember the objet being. They now have a pretty broad material line and the accessories they’re adding are nice features to have. I recently received their new enclosed, automated power-wash system and it makes the whole process pretty clean.

I am going to be assembling another team and kitting out a new office in the upcoming year and i will more than likely just go with a form 2 to start and maybe just add more if we need more volume. I’ll probably also ad an FDM system to make more durable models but not sure which one at this point.

I have no relationship with Form and i’m definitely not on here schilling for them but I’ve purchased a pretty broad range of printers and the form2 is easily the most bang for the buck.

Thanks for that dude! That is a great run down of machines!

In my last position we used a Form Labs 2 in the office. Great product. Build time is a little slower than an FDM but I can say everything else is better. They have also come a long way with the materials you can use in them. A lot of pro’s scoff at them , but for in the office small studio use I think they are top notch.

I’ve used a Makerbot 2 for the last few years and over time it just became too finicky to deal with. At times I would produce great parts but inconsistency started to set in the past year and it just became too unreliable. It now collects dust.

We recently purchased a form labs 2 SLA printer and it’s worked out pretty well. We’re still getting used to working with the resin and UV curing the material as opposed to the FDM process. The SLA gives you a great surface finish straight out of the printer, once cleaned up it really does produce a nice part. Currently, we’re seeing about 5% material shrinkage after clean-up and cure, so that’s something to factor. This might also depend on the type of resin you print with.

For smaller budgets, based on what I’ve seen and heard, Form2 is really great aside from the small footprint. Hoping the Form3 is bigger if the tech is that scaleable.

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay, lots of detailed replies which are really helping.

Michael - Do you think the Objet needs a dedicated team for the maintenance like your previous experience?

BryanBrutherford - Thanks for your very detailed reply ! Another user mentionned the shrinkage on the Form 2, is it a problem for you? Is the Form 2 material comparable to an FDM machine?

bmhdesign - The 5% shrinkage seems like it could be a problem with small assembly details (snaps, etc.) In the end is it problematic

Finally, how’s the speed of the Form 2 printer compared to an FDM machine?

Overall thanks guys with all the great answers !!!

I know you asked Michael but i am going to chime in on the objet machine.
For the cost and complexity of those machines you should plan on a dedicated machine liaison at minimum.
All my designers were trained to load and start the machine and do a basic post build cleanup but the routine maintenance, and parts cleaning are significant jobs that require someone willing to get very familiar with the machine. At first we used one of our designers as the in house tech and later that job transitioned to ambitious interns.

I have had no issues with formlabs shrinkage but i mostly make big fat chunky parts with generous tolerance.
They have more than a dozen material options each compounded for the certain desirable characteristics including durability, precision, FDA compliant, etc.
You should get on their site and see if they have what you need. Form2 is SLA and basically the opposite of FDM, the advantage of working with FDM is that you are using ABS, Nylon, PLA, etc. these are real world, injection molding plastics. Although FDM doesn’t match the flow and structure of molded plastics, they are the same materials so you can make some assumptions when testing durability. There are SLA resins that are billed as “like” PP or “like” ABS but none are actually those materials.

^^^ What he said :slight_smile:

I’m noticing a trend in CAD contractors that have their own machines making it kind of a one-stop thing that has been useful.

All the small consultancies and similar operations in my area have a Formlabs Form 2 and it seems to be ‘near perfect’ aside from the smaller build areas. If I was buying one today I would get that one, hands down.

Wanted to concur with Ryan about the Objet - people can be general all rounders with it, but you’ll need someone dedicated to get intimate with the machine and processes.

Although focusing more on the hobbyist, this reddit 3D printing megathread can be a good resource to ask questions and search for previous answers (make sure to check previous months too):

We have an old Dimension Elite SST1200 that we use a lot, and unlike the OP it’s been quite reliable. We have had the maintenance contract though, and they have done significant work on it to the point of rebuilding major sections. The company we’ve used is Fisher Unitech, and though the contract is expensive it is nice to have a reliable workhorse that we don’t have to fuss with to make work. We also really like the soluble support. After having supports that just dissolve away (we do usually break most of it off to speed it up as well, but that’s easy and quick), cutting supports off an SLA feels like a real pain. Resolution isn’t great, but for most things we don’t actually need super high res unless they’re tiny parts or finish models.

We also have a Form 1 that doesn’t get a ton of use since the FDM machine is easier and more reliable. Not sure if we’d use the SLA more if it was a Form 2. Unfortunately Form has stopped making material for it, which pisses me off a little (it’s not that old, even if it makes economic sense they’ve lost points with me by not supporting their product long term). We did find some third party material from Photocentric, though, which has worked well so far. We’ve only used the clear flexible, but they have a big selection with multiple colors (inc. clear) for each material type. https://photocentricgroup.com/usa/our-shop/?v=7516fd43adaa. The material is cheaper than Form’s as well and I believe it should work with the Form 2.

Photocentric also makes some interesting printers that we might consider if we want to upgrade the SLA. They use LCDs instead of lasers or DLP which allows them to have a relatively large build volume. Their biggest printer has a build volume of 470mm x 240mm x 340mm (18.5 in x 9.4 in x 13.4 in) for about $5k. They also have smaller/cheaper models. The resin for these machines (they call it “daylight” resin) is also pretty cheap with a big selection (more options than for their laser resins, I think). The only issue is that it’s hard to find reviews from people who’ve actually used them. Do any of you have any experience with them?

Thanks guys, much appreciated ! This definitively helps me !

The Objet printers are definitely only suitable for large organizations doing high budgeted projects.
For mechanical models and industrial design in general, FDM is recommended. For the same budget of an SLA printer you can also get a BCN3D Sigma and have great quality dual material prints.
I do a lot of detail work i.e. textures, jewelry so for me it is time to now add an SLA printer to the range.
Once there was a Kickstarter initiative called ONO but they failed to deliver. There still is a budget solution - the SparkMaker.
If you guys know of other SLA machines sub $500, let me know!

There is Zortrax M200 at my office. I use it heavily for creating parts related to power or hand tools designs.

I ordered samples from Makerbot reseller, Formlabs 2, and Ultimaker 3 in advantage to compare prints to each other with respect to quality and price. IMHO, when quality of surface is a MUST Formlabs is a winner. However if money does play a role to you, it can be failed decision.

The price of print itself is high, but the cost of printing makes real difference. Original resign from formlabs is not cheap. Comparing to cost of FDM, prints can be 4x more expensive. If you are going to print big prints, as I do, like 10 to 15 cm high, this can make a differance.

Makerbot quality of samples I achieved were low with respect to Zortrax and Ultimaker. The last one has superior to Zortrax configuration and tooling assets. Same with price. At the end I decided to buy Zortrax. This is why.

  • very good quality of printed surfaces(ABS accuracy 0.09 mm, infill high or maximum)

  • easy to use, no extra experience in 3D printing necessary

  • nice design(imho superior to Ultimaker)

  • extra covers to “seal” printing area

  • low price with respect to prints quality

These are pros. There are cons either:

  • ABS which default material Zortrax M200 is printing the parts has high shrinkage. I mean high! I Spent a lot of time to find appropriate configurtation regarding settings and position of printing, and finally there is no known to me solution to achieve big parts fitting together. Recently I`ve done some desgin for 18V cordless drill, printing components seperately i.e “color” housing and TPR area, trying at the end to assemble them. It does not work every time. Parts tend to have diffirent tollerance regarding the big dimensions. My advise is to print whole designed device at once, and them paint seperately appropriate areas.

  • there is no sensor regarding missing fillament in printing head. It happened to me several times, that printer was doing its job while the fillament was missing. It can be annoying issue with 3D printer placed in different room, left for 18 + hours long print alone.

Finall question: Am I happy with Zortrax? Yes.

I learned how to over come mentioned annoying issues( i.e big shrinkage)

Reviving this thread.

Currently looking for a printer for our ID office. both of our engineering offices have higher priced machines we can use but we are remote so looking to spend $5-7k on something for us to use for quicker turnaround and keep our iterations quick. I initially was looking at the Formlabs printer as the resolution is great, but the resin price is high and build size is fairly small (They have an XL coming but its 9 months out) which after a recommendation from a friend who runs the printing lab at the college I went to, recommended the Raise 3d products. With great resolution, large build space, and a great price it seems pretty tempting, the only thing (I have an email to them about this) is I am curious about the support, I don’t want to get a product that I have to comb through countless forums to find a fix, I want to spend as little time operating this thing as possible. Is the general consensus to stay away from the Makerbot products for professional use? The fact that they seem to have a pretty robust company makes me believe support could be good. A friend is really trying to convince me on getting a Prusa, but it seems very hobby based to me, however its only $1000…

Heres a link to the Raise: Best Industrial-Grade 3D Printer - Pro2 | $3,999 | Raise3D

I would definitely get something that has a support contract and a local rep. I had some of the really cheap printers at an old job. We needed 3 because 2 were constantly broken.

We have an ultimaker 2 extended+ and 2 form 2’s at our office and we’ve had great success with them. We run them almost every day and we’ve probably had 1 failure on each of the the form 2’s and maybe 5 on the ultimaker all year. We mostly do consumer electronics so it’s nice to have a cheap, quick option to print on for concept validation and the higher res ones to use for user testing & executive approvals. IT’also really nice having a backup printer if one of them is down. The range of materials and amount of support formlabs offers is really awesome too. Definitely recommend both, which fit into your 5k-7k ballpark. I’ve had to run maintenance on the ultimaker and it bogs us down a few days as we’re waiting for parts, etc. so I agree with 914 that whatever printer you get make sure there is a solid support backing it.

A few months after this post i started putting the new office together and we put in a Form 2 for small high res parts, a Raise3d N2Pro for large FDM parts and a Muse laser cutter.

I miss my Objet and Dimension machines so much. These machines are obviously much less expensive in terms of upfront investment and consumables but they are also very quirky and down all the time and it turns out that their support process is not the best for a professional environment where you just need the machines to work. They are hobby level machines and require users that understand them and are comfortable taking them apart and fixing them. Personally, i have no interest in being a 3d printer technician i just want to be a designer with good tools. I get it some tools require maintenance and upkeep but we’re literally talking about troubleshooting processes that often take days or even weeks to resolve. thats not just time that its not printing, that’s time out of my teams already packed schedule.

My objet and Dimension machines were expensive, with an expensive maintenance contract but when they broke someone came out and made it right if you can afford it make sure you consider the value of that.

I would put the Form machine in a category above the Raise or Muse which both had catastrophic failures within the first few months and required extensive disassembly and repair with parts we had to pay for even though those issues were clearly widespread and common.

My favorite 3D printers are other people’s 3D printers. :slight_smile:

For all the reasons mentioned above. I like to use https://www.forecast3d.com They have just about every kind of machine you could want. They make sure the files print right. Costs are reasonable and the ship (they used to be just up the road when we lived in San Diego)… but there are lots of other companies like this.

Outsourcing 3D prints.

Pros:

  • You are only paying per part, so no upfront costs (and as a consultant I bill those costs back… you bill them back either way, but this is a more direct expense method).

  • No maintenance

  • they should have good customer service and part finishing

  • any machine possible and multiple machines so you can get a lot of parts fast if needed

Cons:

  • You probably use it less
  • if you use it often the costs might start to equal out

In housing 3D printing

Pros:

  • Use whenever (assuming it is working)
  • Use for whatever (assuming it is working)

Cons:

  • High up front cost
  • Maintenance time/cost
  • How do you bill back for it? Increase hourly rates across the board, have a 3D printing line item?
  • Limited throughput (you have one machine, you get one part at a time)
  • Limited type (you need ABS, Nylon, Metal, but only have one of these)

In the end whether you are printing in house or out of house, every part you print will have a “per part” cost. If you are doing it in house you can take the cost of the machine, add the cost of your hours to run it and finish parts, add maintenance costs, add the material costs and divide it by the number of prints per year. This is your per print cost estimate that you can compare to an out of house 3D printing service. We figured this out at Sound United and I was surprised how much in housing it cost.

We have an underused Connex (the biggest Objet) and a non-used smaller Objet. Ever since we found a few dependable Asian sources for machined ABS we have chosen the Objet prints less and less. The Connex was a quarter of a million bucks. When we need something turned around quick, we use the Connex, but being in product development and manufacturing our timelines are on the 18-24 month time frame so we can plan our biggest builds to leverage the Asian machining places. By way of a rough example, something like treadmill with plastic hoods, side bars, dash, various end caps will cost $4000-5000 coming from Asia, and easily 2x-3x that in materials on the Connex, not counting shop fabricator’s time.
I wouldn’t mind a little PLA printer to play around with but thats more from a hobbyist angle.