Director level job – Solidworks test at interview?

Wow! That is weird. A paper job application? Was it MacDonalds? Maybe you went into the wrong office building.

It’s weird that they ask you about SolidWorks in the interview and it didn’t seem to be in the job description…that’s what I find most troubling.

Having said that, I’ve worked with, and seen the results of, some outside firms on hiring. Sometimes the headhunter writes the job description based on their knowledge while the client had a completely different criteria in mind.

The hilarious response here would be to say “this is how I draw a cube in solid works - you, sit in this chair, draw me a 10” cube in SolidWorks , render in brushed aluminum. I’ll be in my office thinking about actual problems and solutions, come get me when you are ready for a critique. Once I review and approve the file, I’ll want you to CNC it in actual material by the end of the day … thats how I make a cube in SolidWorks."

Dude … WTF. This is the most condescending and insulting response I’ve read in a very long time. Idainc’s response was absolutely correct. A skills test for a design director is ridiculous – I’m sure if they had even hinted at it in a pre-interview the trip across country would not have happened.

Good for you Idainc!!![/quote]



Thank You! :smiley:

I always enjoy an arrogant pontification early in the morning. How pompous. Must be an “educator” of some sorts. :wink:

My wife and I went to Pratt and in one of her classes a teacher at an ad agency told her senior class – “You need to ask yourself how low you will stoop and how much self-esteem you’re willing to sacrifice because industry will help you find out”. And the same applies to ID I guess.

I found the parts in question on the offender’s web site and reviewed them with a trusted colleague who uses Alias. We came to the conclusion that with proper measuring devices each part would take about 4 hours each

I think you handle it well.

2 other approaches…

  1. look at the young designer and ask them how long it would take and what would be their approach then provide insight in how they could do it better… And then after 30 minutes inform the interviewers that you as a director would delegate that kind of work to your staff as the opportunity costs to have someone like you doing that work day in day out is not worth their money that will be paying you.

  2. (i mind has changed if you think the parts would take 4 hours) but i would have asked the designer if they wanted a Sketch model, A model for prototyping or a model for production, what where they using this model for, what where the project time constraints and the project needs… all the questions that as a director i would be asking.

I would have probably taken option 2 (but like you i would not have modeled the cad unless though it was something i could hammer out in 20 minutes or so. And i am a pretty damn good with SW) I truly would have wanted to talk to the hiring manager or who my boss would have been to (more politely put) find out what the hell they were thinking… more and more i see posting for Design Director with 4-6 years experience and experts at everything under the sun… If they truly need a director then they are probably going to be in trouble, and or they just dont have a clue.

As for designbreathings response perhaps he is simply playing devils advocate and trying to provide a pov from the company interviewing you, if that is what they are thinking then they could have handled it very differently. I am cautious because of being burned once hiring a designer who when i asked if that was their work they said yes. After hiring them i n noticed a lack of creativity when i challenged them and did some digging they responded “yeah the sketches where my work, i never said i came up with the Design”

I think the biggest miss is that they didnt tell you about what the onsite interview process was going to be and entail… because as you stated had you known you would have not flown.

Still would love to know who this is… but that is just my curiosity. In the end i think you did the right thing and also dodged a bullet.

I had a similar test, although it was verbal by a guy who did SolidWorks at a foundry where I got my first “design drafter” job which I turned into industrial design job. They had a complex tap (bibcock) which the guy questioning me was having trouble modelling. At the foundry we had to get client’s products and bring them into the 21st century by 3D modelling them to create new low pressure die casting dies.

He showed me his file, which was ok, but not very accurate, and then asked me how I would model it. I told him how I would use surfaces rather than solid modelling; using splines and tangent relations, equal curvature relations, intersection curves and then stitch it all together, model the core, indent etc. He was blown away.

I then had to email my University lecturer who taught me solidworks, because my methods weren’t giving the correct result. Haha. As a fresh graduate, I found this nerve racking as my career literally depended on it - there were almost zero ID jobs in 2010 in Australia; but I didn’t find it insulting. I would now, though, as I have proven myself with product releases, awards etc.

I can’t imagine how shitty that made the OP feel as a senior designer and manager. What a complete insult. You were 100% justified to leave, and should have charged them for wasting your time. The person who excused this behaviour and added insult to injury obviously hasn’t been on the receiving end of this sort of behaviour, and if they have, must be a masochist of some sort.

I had a similar experience not for a Director Level job but for a senior level position. I was brought out half way cross the country to meet with this company. They did not express that I would have to do any kind of skill test. I had this product category represented in my portfolio. Showed up and proceed to have a pretty normal interview then they were like ok time for a sketch test and hand me paper and some random pencils and markers. They said I would have as long as I wanted. I felt board line offend to have this surprise test and it was very board like find problems with the products and show solutions. I had only really looked at the products on line briefly before the interview and had not really put much thought in to issues the products had. Well in 45 minutes they came back and said pencils down. This was very shocking giving I was told I had a lot more time and I was no were near finished even with some basic thoughts. All and all I was happy not to get an offer form them at the end of this whole process it would have been nice to be able to prepare for the test a head of time.

There were a number of factors at play in my decision.

With nearly 40 years’ experience and the portfolio to prove it I don’t think I have to qualify much to anyone. At this point in a career it would be very hard to misrepresent much and despite my respect for CAD people it is not really in an ID director’s job description yet my portfolio demonstrates a high level of proficiency in Solidworks.

If I was an employee interviewing at another company, the bulk of my training & software is not paid for by me. This allows me to be more flexible in giving away my time. Especially if I was much younger with much less evidence to present.

As a consultant the acquisition of the software, training, practice time, equipment and the environment to run it in are all mine to bear. I know the value of it and I do not give it away. If CAD work is unusable clients don’t pay for it, model makers can’t use it, my name isn’t on the patent and it’s not on store shelves.

I used the analogy of an attorney in my rebuttal. Would you ask an attorney to represent you in a small case to see how he / she did then have a paralegal review it?

If we don’t respect our field who will? Any time someone asks me for something for free they don’t value it and they’re not getting it from me.

So much about getting a job is about fit more than capabilities. Clearly this place was not the right fit for you, even if they did offer you the job (wouldn’t be for me either), so I think in the end they did you a favor and you did what you felt was right.

Wow :open_mouth:

I don’t think I have met anyone who’s been in the biz for 40 years and does still direct ID on a day-to-day.
That is quite an amazing wealth of experience which any company should be excited to have.

I had to do a CAD test for an interview once. I was applying for a summer intern position during my second year of university. That was understandable for the job I was doing. I don’t blame you one bit for refusing to do this at your career level.

Thanks. Have to admit they really misrepresented the job as they really seemed to be looking for someone to only be very proficient in Solidworks and not running a design department. They could care less about content. I also have to admit I didn’t do a good enough job of interviewing them on the phone.

Including travel time and flight delays this took me out of my home for 58 hours - I was in their office for 20 minutes.

I can understand the potential rationale behind a skills test - if you are expected to direct and mentor people within a small team they’d probably want to make sure you aren’t bluffing. But to surprise you with it seems to be a bit over the top.

Sounds like it was just an early red flag, and like others said better to see it now rather than in a few months when they have you doing grunt CAD work.

It would be hard for anyone to have my resume and my portfolio and have there be even the most remote possibility that there was anything fraudulent in it. Just go to Google patents and type in my name.

They justified it by adding that since millennials misrepresent their abilities so freely that they have to carefully scrutinize everything. My career is older than a millennial.

Had to laugh when they had the most junior staff member they had escort me to a room to sit down and draw one part and “when you’re done with the draw this one”. Disrespectful event on all levels. But on a larger note, it seems that designers are partly at fault in presenting themselves as jacks of all trades and masters of none. Everyone uses every piece of software imaginable.

[ Deleted ]

I don’t think this is an age issue, perhaps an American cultural issue, but I’ve interviewed several candidates who represented skill sets on paper and then admitted they have not used, and would not recall how to use those skills in any significant fashion. And that is outside of the design career, it can apply to anyone.

For example: My old boss used Pro Engineer, but in the late 90’s. He too had 20+ patents to his name - if you asked him to open a modern version of Creo and sketch out a box with a hole in it, it wouldn’t happen. Did that make him a bad director? Not in any way shape or form - but having had a skill set and still having a skill set are not always the same thing.

Your treatment by said employee is not justified by any of this, but putting the shoe on the other foot, if I was hiring for a position and I knew that position would have to mentor and/or do tactical work, I would probably require some type of skills test or clear demonstration of what skills you had that were up to date. As an employer, you wouldn’t want to hire someone and then find out on the first day they can talk the talk but not actually execute the way they said.

Google is one of the biggest tech companies in the world and no one gets in the door with out some type of demonstrated design exercise - so it’s not to say exercises/tests are uncommon or frowned upon, but employers should be forthcoming with their expectations.

At some point you have to ask yourself how low you’re willing to go in life and these guys found that point for me real fast. If, after an extensive amount of phone time discussing my work, they thought it would be clever to cast doubt on all that then they can keep the job.

As fate would have it, they’ve downscaled the job to 0-3 years after probably having a real hard time treating director level people so poorly. Myopic as well. My portfolio is filled with brand name relatively complex products compared to their very simple ones.

idaine: I think I’m younger than you, but sometime around year 12-14 of my career, I stopped going low in life. I have options now, so why bother kissing someone’s behind for a CAD jockey job.

Keno: I agree that hiring creatives is broken in many organizations. Interestingly, 3 of the 4 people I hired DID NOT have the requested SolidWorks experience. Within a week they were productive and within a month they were amazing. If someone has learned 1 3D suite, they have the ability to learn another one rapidly. I think most HR departments don’t know this.

I have never hired a designer for their skills as it relates to tools. But always for how they think and solve and their desire and ability to grow. I can teach anyone to sketch better or to do 3d modeling… but i dont have time to teach them how to be a creative thinking…

It depends on how an organization sees the discipline. Is it value add or completing a task? A critical part of product definition or A side styling? A way the organization differentiates itself from the competition, or hey punk CAD this up?

As much as I like diving into the A side styling, it is gravy on the goose as they say… no goose? Not interested. I want to play a key role in what the product is, what it does, who it is for, how it is made. Then the topical styling part is easy. If you are handed a festering turd of a product concept and mechanical layout there isn’t much you can do. This is why car sketches always look hot but the end result is often a lumpy mess. The design function is divorced and in direct conflict from the part of the company that decides what it is, who it is for, and the mechanical layout. Atom smashing these disparate points of view together is rarely pleasant nor effective.

Adding to this, the people doing the hiring at this level aren’t designers. They are almost universally deliverable oriented. In school, we all made our own models and to a degree did simple graphics as a part of the curriculum.

The people doing the hiring now see designers as a deliverable source only and really don’t have nearly the appreciation of the subtleties and logic that goes behind a product. Now you’ll see job requirements that include CS6, Auto CAD, Catia, ProE, all manner of rendering and animation programs, product packaging and provide “help” on advertising digital 2D sketching, physical modelmaking and the list goes on.

ID may not have done itself a favor by being all things to all people and jacks of all trades and masters of none.