2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Attn Wacom Product Managers; If you do make this tablet, make it bigger than the one shown, give it a Core i7 processor, lots of RAM and an Nvidia graphics engine. We will buy them. :slight_smile:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/25/the-ms-surface-pro

Reviving this thread - played around with a Surface Pro last night.

Loved everything about it except the screen size (for sketching) and one unknown; GPU performance.

Has anyone tried a big SolidWorks assembly on one of these - or even a big Rhino file? Or a 200mb Photoshop file?

The HD4000 is pretty mediocre when it comes to integrated graphics. If you look at CAD benchmarks you might see anywhere from 1-10fps for certain apps.

It’s certainly possible, and may be fine for some light geometry, but my Quadro 2000M chokes on big assemblies and that’s a modern dedicated GPU.

Yep, that’s what I’m guessing will happen with the Surface Pro if we try anything of substance. If it were slightly bigger it could be a dedicated (and mobile!!) sketching / email / admin device but with the handicap of size + GPU performance, I’m still on the fence. FYI though, the Asus AIO that will make up the desktop companion to whichever tablet we finally go with is performing well (it’s got the Nvidia GEforce GT 630Mand is handling everything with ease.

Surface Pro Artist Edition anyone (14" wacom enabled screen, Nvidia GPU, 10 hr batttery life)?.

Did anybody end up trying the Surface Pro or Asus VivoTab? Was the consensus that the screen will be too small? What else is (finally) out there now? I have never used a Wacom stylus before but it is time to get into sketching with Sketchbook Pro and Photoshop.

Greetings - I tried a Surface Pro (after the upgrade that gave it pressure sensitivity) and it was adequate for Sketchbook Pro, but barely so for heavy GPU needs, same as with the Samsung Ativ and likely with the Asus Vivotab (but dont know for sure on that one). Note: look through this thread and others and you’ll see a video showing lag on the Samsung unit while sketching, there’s no way I could deal with that. Also of note; Asus promises to have a full featured tablet running Core i7 or better, Wacom enabled HD screen and discreet Nvidia graphics coming…soon.

The ‘consensus’ so far seems to be that none of the tablets out now have graphic capabilities we need, instead assuming whatever it takes to sketch with OneNote must be good enough.

In June, Tablet Kiosk is releasing an updated version of their Sahara tablet that promises to have all the bells and whistles we look for, except an Nvidia GPU. They’ve offered us a unit as soon as they’re available. We will get it up and running when it arrives and report back. Otherwise, it’s a wait-until-next-year game.

I bought a Samsung Ativ and have been meaning to share a review… here goes :slight_smile:

First impressions: It feels very futuristic compared to my X60 laptop; Windows 8 and the hardware make it feel more like a big smartphone than a laptop. The stylus works fine for sketchbook pro, though I imaging it is possible to bog it down with high res or too many layers. Build quality is good, though they should have used metal covers imo. I like the design oveall and the detachable Keyboard is a cool feature which is fun to use.

After a week: Windows 8 is a big change - it’s like learning a new OS rather than a new version, though I do like it. Things take longer when your getting up to speed. Some programs are made for Win8 (like Explorer) and they work great, while others are not (like Chrome) and are harder to use. New features like the photo login are great… So is the email, metro start screen, and gestural controls once you get used to it. It was a little frustrating having to go slow to learn it all though

Screen resolution is way too high for such a small screen, at least with standard programs. Icons and menu items on regular windows programs are near impossible to hit with a finger, unless you tweak the settings for bigger fonts (once you do that, things are fine). Im surprised you have to do this for the stock OS it shipped with - Samsung should have set that stuff beforehand. Wide format makes your working area small in the vertical dimension, which is un-ideal for photo work IMO because the standard shaped images are very small when you view the entire thing + the bottom bar takes up screen space. The hinge doesn’t allow more than about a 110 degree opening, which works on a desk but it’d be better if it was more on the lap for example, though the screen/tablet is top-heavy and it’d fall over if it did lean back more.

There’s no way to to easily turn off the touchscreen when you’re sketching! This is frustrating. Lack of hardware buttons is also frustration coming from a Cintiq. For the keyboard screen connection, the lock is secure though occasionally the link between the two disconnects and you have to push the tablet down into the keyboard to reconnect. Last gripe, the 128 GB of hard drive space is barely adequate and without tweaking some of the automated backup settings and clouds services I have, the hard drive fills up fast. there is however a microsd card slot that would allow a 128GB 2nd drive upgrade. It runs 3D programs too; I’ve put Rhino on there but haven’t seriously pushed it yet… this is handy for rough shape underlays in SBP. Need to try SW or Keyshot sometime.

After one month: It’s great once your used to it and I really like it now, though I’d say it’s more of an ultrabook/souped up tablet than a mobile workstation (it really never fit that profile anyway). It’s great for sketching on the road, emails, surfing, content consumption and light content creation… Processor, Hardware, etc. are more than adequate for those uses… however a desktop workstation is going to be much more comfortable for normal workflow speeds.

Thanks Travis - good to see the pros and cons.

We’ve been given a TabletKiosk i575 to evaluate - I’ll post some observations once we have it loaded up with software, etc.

http://www.tabletkiosk.com/products/sahara/i575_overview.asp

This is pretty cool - Windows 8 tablets produced by Wacom …

http://community.wacom.com/2013/08/20/get-mobile/

the Cintiq Companion is a fully-fledged Windows 8 tablet, powered by a 3rd generation Intel® Core™ i7 processor and Intel® HD Graphics 4000. It is available in two models offering either 8GB RAM with 256GB SSD with Windows 8 (for $1999), or 8GB memory with 512GB SSD with Windows 8 Pro (for $2499)

I can’t wait till next year when they release an updated one…so I can buy this at a nicer price! though when you look at the cost of a new laptop and a intuos, my guess is you’re over the $1999 it starts at…

I’m disappointed by the Wacom - sure, it’s a full fledged Win 8 tablet, but the problem is that it’s still only 13" and doesn’t have a dedicated graphics processor that will keep up with demanding work.

Plus, it’s no better priced than the Sahara i575 enterprise tablet we’re currently evaluating (and is spec’d the same).

I hope Asus follows through on their promise to bring a large (14"+) Win 8 Wacom enabled tablet with Nvidia graphics

For me, the best part of this is that it was designed for On-the-go sketching by the company who has built the top tier reputation for sketch monitors, and includes front bezel keys.

I find my current Samsung tablet lacking without the keys and other details like that… probably because its trying to be a generalist product for all types of users. I’d wonder the same about a tablet that was built for serious CAD and sketching

regarding the issue of on board intel GPU vs the Nvida option…
We just demoed the Lenovo Helix (mid tiered version, i5, 4GB ram) at our office and I was pleasantly surprised at how it handled the SW viewport. It wasn’t butter smooth and the model was relatively simple, but it worked. I wouldn’t really expect to use these guys to seriously pump CAD, but it works well in a pinch or on the go.

I agree the Wacom looks tempting as a sketch focused laptop.

Looking at the specs for the sahara is says that it’s only got 256 levels of pressure sensitivity, compared to the 2000+ on the wacom, have you experienced any difficulty with the lower levels of pressure sensitivity?

FWIW the Onboard Intel HD4000 Graphics is fairly competent these days. If you’re buying a 13" machine to pump Cad on, then no, it’s never going to be great. But honestly, the cheapo entry level Nvidia or AMD card you’d get in most low-mid end machines isn’t going to be great either. Plus if you think about the use case for this, would you rather have a longer battery life afforded by the single onboard GPU, or crappy battery life AND mediocre CAD performance? I think it’s the right call.

As mentioned it should let you at least run most 3D apps, enough to pop open a model and review and say “hey this is wrong” while you’re mobile. Probably a great machine for students who want something they can bring to studio but still run Solidworks on.

Hi Sorry for the late reply - from a Wacom enabled perspective, the Sahara operated fine, the 256 levels didn’t really affect our approach to sketching/rendering or results. It is a nice tablet - beefy like some guessed - but offers the guts to get almost any job done. Because it was so ‘able’ to be used as a PC, we found ourselves making sure we had a mouse & keyboard along with it which begs the question of whether it’s an effective tablet.

We’re putting together an evaluation of our experience for TabletKiosk, the maker. I’ll try to share more info soon.

I’m keeping an ear on Haswell announcements and watching Asus, as they seem to be serious about tablets+Win8.1+gaming (which translates for our uses as ‘graphic computing power’).

There is hope just around the corner…I’ve been refining my search lately for “Windows 8.1, tablet, Haswell, Wacom, silo, discrete gpu” and while the last one hasn’t yet panned out the rest appear right over the horizon - the latest Intel graphics (4400 for mobiles/laptops/tablets and 5000 for entry desktops) is supposedly better than the 4000 and coupled with Haswell makes for as good a solution as we’re going to get this coming year;

November release; Lenovo Official US Site | Laptops, PCs, Tablets & Data Center | Lenovo US full rotate solution

Imminent release; Fujitsu EMEIA : Fujitsu Global twist screen solution

In patent infringement no-fly zone; http://www.samsung.com/ph/ativ2013/ativq.html?CID=AFL-hq-mul-0813-11000170 and http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/samsung-ativ-q/4505-3126_7-35796877.html slider solution

Here’s a good living document; Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

and this one would have been just about perfect had they not made it dead on arrival by using an NTrig stylus AND by not having a place to put that stylus; Sony WH-1000XM3 successor revealed in leaked photos — watch out, Bose | Laptop Mag

Samsung recently purchased 5% of Wacom so you can bet their SPen will continue to evolve and offer the best Wacom experience but Lenovo supposedly still has Wacom contracts so that ThinkPad Yoga should be great…Sony has apparently been given the middle finger and has had to start using NTrig across the board…pity, because their build quality is excellent…and they have a 15" tablet hybrid unit coming out that would have been awesome!

and in case anyone really thinks NTrig is just as good as Wacom; Samsung ATIV Smart PC 500T vs Sony VAIO Duo 11 quick pen test - YouTube

Oh the fun.

In case anyone is keeping up with the latest Wacom enabled tablets…

ThinkPad Yoga was released for US purchase this AM - 12.5" fold tablet/laptop hybrid: spec’d with the i7, 8gb RM, 256GB SSD and Wacom FHD screen it comes to about$1900.

The Fujitsu T904 (13.3" flip screen tablet PC) is not yet released and the Samsung ATIV Q (13.3" slide PC tablet) is still hiding in the woods.

:slight_smile: