ACCD..is it worth the financial burden?

I say for any school, don’t attend unless you can somewhat afford it. The student loan debt after graduation will take a toll on your body.

As for Art Center, I think it will be worth your money IF you can get sufficient scholarships. If you don’t get any scholarships or too little, either try applying again later or find other sources of income such as working before attending.

That’s the problem, I wouldn’t be able to afford it right now and would have to default to loans - which is something I am desperately trying to avoid. I’ve had friends who willingly signed away their life to Sallie Mae and regret it now and they went into far more “in demand” careers than auto design. I did not get a scholarship, although I did get 85% on my portfolio review which doesn’t make sense.

One trend that really scares me about automotive design is how streamlined the design process has become. Ten years ago, you’d walk into a BMW dealership and every car would look vastly different yet still have the BMW look and feel. Now, almost every car looks exactly the same. A lot of auto companies are moving towards this singular “corporate look” approach, which I imagine - besides being cheaper - reduces the size of their design departments. Not to mention this new trend of releasing 1.5 version of vehicles instead of designing an entirely new platform.

However, 0-5 trans jobs a year sounds insane…seriously, wow…can’t imagine how many applications they must receive for each posting. Even if the top school’s graduate 12-15 people per semester, thats over 100 people looking for entry-level jobs per semester in the US! I’ve gone on these automotive websites and none of the list any openings for design either - most are looking for marketing/business side of things.

Blah - what to do. On one hand I want to tell myself “F*** it” and just do the program and find out what happens but I just can’t look past the price tag/employment numbers.

Most of us have had loans, just the simple math of it.

On BMW, I’d say just the opposite actually. Their line pre Bangle was “One sausage, 3 lengths” … they only had 3 models at the time. Now the surfacing is incredibly complex and they have a dozen models.

This reads more like you are talking yourself out of it.

If you look deeper into the matter you might find that some universities world wide
can match ACCD with much lower cost (dept) resulting out of it. But you’d need to
leave the US and their prohibitivly costly educational system.

For sure an M5 might very well be the best and most desireable sedan in the world.
But if you don’t have the dough it is no use keeping looking at it.

If you watch closely where the actual designers in trans come from you’ll see a rather
diverse background. The companies hire different talent for their team and it looks as
if they would not even want a bunch of ACCD graduates taking over completely.

It might be advisable to envision your role in one of those teams and lay a managable
route to that. (including the money issues)

It takes a lot of confidence and persistance to get there, but some of my classmates did,
despite coming from an ID background.

mo-i

One of my instructors, whom is an Art Center graduate, told his students this week that if they have the money, go to Art Center. According to him it’s that simple.

Talking myself out of it? Not necessary, just taking a rational approach to the situation. These design school’s aren’t cheap, in fact, they’re more expensive than most regionally accredited universities, so it sort of begs the be questioned and examined more carefully (IMO) - their tuition seems to be on a constant rise and I doubt employment numbers are increasing at the same rate.

As much as I’d love to do a program out of the US, due to language barriers, I probably won’t go through with it. I’m sure this is a long shot, but do automotive companies hire designers from non-industrial design backgrounds (graphic design, fine art, etc.) ? I’m thinking about going into our school’s Graphic Design program (BFA) as it seems to be very good - plus as a fall back I could always do freelance work, work at an ad agency, design websites or even work for myself. Although I tend to think in a 3D median, I do pretty well in 2D.

Time to flip a coin?

Might want to talk to current students there and get there perspectives on the job outlook. They will give you the most honest and direct feedback about the program.

I went to UC and we had a fairly strong Trans program. Not as strong as Art Center of CCS but still a good program. We had one designer move directly into the auto industry. However he was super talented. Also quite a few who are now class A surfacers in an auto industry as well. Again near the top of the class. Jobs are limited, but there are openings.

Also there are lots of tangential jobs. Car interiors, Boats, Bikes, etc.

As for hiring non automotive designers, I doubt that is a possibility considering the large amount of automotive trained designers to pick from. But I don’t have any direct sources to back that statement up.

$200K in debt buying you no tangible guarantee of enjoyment or success - no thank you. At a 3% rate (low) that’s 20 years of $1,100 a month. For the ‘love’ of inanimate objects and sheet metal you will almost certainly hobble your ability to go on vacations, buy a house (or car for that matter), take dates to a nice dinner, heck even get a new iPhone every release cycle.

There are people/parents/students out there for whom that kind of money is no big deal - and perhaps some do go to ACCD.

Sorry - do they not offer a MA program, for half the semesters/time/money? Are there other schools that have competent trans depts and cost less?

One of our lead designers at the company I work at is an Art Center grad. He says that companies like GM and Boeing come and scout students in their junior and senior year (sort of like NFL scouting in college football) and offer jobs based on their student work. I think there’s so few automotive designer positions advertised because the companies just go to Art Center and fill the positions before they even see the light of day. That was back in the late 90s/early 2000s so things may be different now.

You have a much, much better chance of getting an automotive design job out of Art Center than most other places in the US, but it’s not like you can’t get into the industry at all if you go somewhere you can more easily afford. I work in the aviation design industry and I went to a state school, so it’s not entirely impossible to break into transportation from elsewhere.

This is the main factor that is putting me off. It seems like the pay is in line with most other creative jobs - so it’s not like the top talent is pulling in some outrageous salary figures. One thing I’ve realized at school is I’m not driven by money like most of my other classmates. However, I realize going to a private design school is an investment and I won’t fall for the “play now, pay later” scam of student loans that are offered these days.

They say you should make 6 times your annual tuition amount per year after graduation to be financially “healthy”. For a state university, this is about $60,000 per year (2(5,000) x 6). Easily attainable after 1 or 2 years out of school with a decent degree (economics, finance, engineering, computer-science, etc.)

For a private design school, like ACCD (which has a trimester setup), your salary should be $315,000 (3(17,500) x 6). This is a figure I feel is only reserved for maybe 2-3% of those in the automotive industry (directors, VP, CEO, etc.) - which is great - but how long does it take to get to that level? 10-15 years if you DO make it to creative director?

Again, this factors in saving for retirement, buying property, owning a car, having kids, etc. while still being able to pay back your loan in a decent amount of time.

So, I don’t know, financially it seems like a train wreck but I still want to do it. :laughing: Apparently, they do offer a Masters program…I’m not sure how you would hit the ground running with something like this though.

Hey there,

My 2 cents worth. I have been working in the auto industry for 15 years (first interiors and now seating). Most of my friends graduated from either CCS, Art Center, Cleveland Institute of Art, and Univ. of Cincinnati. Back in the 90’s I think it was a little bit easier to justify the costs of the tuition but most of what people have been posting in this forum is correct. The top level jobs(if you view top level as in exterior designer) are few and your chances are higher if you attended Art Center or CCS. In addition to that, they will pick only the top 15% or so in the class. Needless to say it is competitive.

I wrote an article about this months ago comparing public and private schools relating to design.

That said, I have to say that tuition in general for these private schools are out of control. If you have the ambition and drive, you CAN indeed make it. We have hired students in the interiors business from U of M and other schools but a lot depends on your portfolio and work. It would be very difficult to get an exterior design position with a Graphic Design background…not impossible, just nearly :wink:

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

I really think that you are being completely rational and smart in thinking through the financials of it. My wife has just about that same situation (except she is a lawyer), and the loans kill us. Here is the problem with 200k in debt making 40-60k. Basically you will go on income contingent loans (without it you will be paying roughly 2400/month, which after taxes will leave you with an unlivable amount). This means that you will pay out enough to keep you 20% over the poverty line (roughly 1100/month). Paying income contingent is very manageable. You will be able to live in a decent place and not have to eat spam everyday. However, that 1100 wont even cover your interest so your loan will actually grow even though you are paying as much as you can. After paying over $1000/month for 2 years, my wifes loan has actually grown $800 from the day she graduated.

I really dont want to deter you from making a decision, but I do know what it is like to be going through these massive loans.

Thanks for the advice, I decided against it…unfortunately. Maybe 10-15 years ago, things would’ve been different but as of now, it seems like financial suicide.I’ve also heard the reputation of ACCD is questionable recently…allowing most students in, increasing class sizes, hiring less industry staff, cutting scholarships, etc.

Is graphic design a decent major if one wants to work in advertising (creating ad campaigns, commercials, etc.)? My university offers it as a BFA and i’d get in-state tuition. I know it doesn’t go hand-in-hand with creating ads, but very few schools offer “Advertising” unless you go to to a private design school.

Graphic design is a good place to start. Some schools also have the more granular ‘Advertising Design’ majors. At Syracuse two different colleges had very similar advertising majors but one was a bit more media and business focused, and the communication design major was more like graphic design.

Right, I know Penn State has an advertising program as well but it looks more like a communications degree (mainly comm classes). I’m assuming a design degree would be best for a creative job at an agency, but how much weight does the actual school carry? I know my school doesn’t have much (or any) brand recognition as far as art/design goes. It is a very well respected state school though.

What do you want to do when you graduate?

While I do understand your decision against going that deeply into dept I’d like
to question your black/white decision making. You COULD do Trans in a lot
of other places and still land a job at a car maker. The next closest thing to trans
design would be industrial design, not graphics design. (This is why so many IDers
still do car doodles… _:wink:

So, why is it graphix, now?

mo-i

Thanks mo-i. This is what I am driving at with my question. Personally I would think less about what is easiest and more in terms of what you want to spend the next 40 years doing. I had a sizable amount of student loans (not 200k mind you! That is crushing). In the end it was easier to live in debt and be happy then live debt free and not be happy. I also paid the loans back in 5 years because debt freaks me out a bit. Likely a result of watching my parents go bankrupt as a child… Bit that is another story.

This will sound harsh, please read this the kindest way possible, but if it was this easy to deter you from transportation or industrial design, then maybe it wasn’t a good fit after all. ID is a competitive field, and transportation is an ultra competitive specialization within that! It take a special sort off stubborn, passionate, hardworking, and highly skilled person to make it. If this is something you really want to do with your life, you will have to be excellent at it and have the right mental sturdiness to achieve.

I’m rambling a bit. I’m sorry.

There are less expensive alternatives. The Universit of Cincinnati is an excellent school that has produced some great trams designers over the years. As is the Cleveland Institute of Art, which keeps a ver low profile, but quietly fosters some fantastic designers… plus you get to say you were in the CIA :wink: Both are much less expensive.

Check out the CIA automotive alumni facebook page:

Not to mention all of the schools in Europe with subsidized tuition!

Like you said, $200,000 is a crushing amount of debt…even $100,000 is insane for a Bachelors degree. It’s not that I don’t want to do it, I just can’t justify the cost. Like someone else in this thread said, the interest alone on that debt would accumulate faster than I can pay it off on a car designers salary, and that’s IF I find a job in the industry. I too have seen my parents struggle with finances and couldn’t imagine living my life like that. At least in their case, they were trying to pay for a tangible item like a house and not degree. In my case, I’d be paying for a job (or the possibility of one).

The problem with CIA or CU is I’d still be paying out-of-state tuition for those schools ( I believe around $12-13k for CU, $16,500 for CIA) which is cheaper than ACCD/CCS but still pretty expensive! Europe sounds great, not sure how the subsidized tuition would work out though. Also, learning a language AND trying to complete my ID degree isn’t ideal.

I don’t agree with you regarding your statement. If I went to an in-state school which offered Industrial Design, that would’ve been my pick from the start. No question about it. Gambling $40-50k is manageable, $200,000k…not so much. It’s not fair to say because I’m being financially responsible, this major might not be right for me. I’m simply looking at the ROI of this degree since after all, school is an investment. If more students viewed education this way, our country’s student loan debt wouldn’t be in the trillions.

My justification for advertising? I’m able to use my creative muscle at an ad agency (already did an internship at one), keep in-state tuition by majoring in something at my university, and I’d graduate pocketing most of what I make. Plus, from what I’ve seen, there is more demand and higher pay.

Looks to me like you can’t choose between ‘your dream’ and ‘a comfortable life after’. I understand that financial depts can cause troubles. But there are numerous transportation design schools with lower tuitions. I am struggeling to get into car design because I didn’t go to one of the well known designschools. Don’t make the same mistake :wink:

As a European I can say the language barrier is not a solid argument. Sure if you go to Germany or Italy you should get the hang of the language a little bit. But all (native) students there will also speak English.

So, are you having doubts about your dream? Remember that the most certain way to your dream is probably the most expensive one. In order to get into Automotive design just go to the specific transportation design schools in the US or Europe (RCA, IED, Umea, Pforzenheim). With a diploma from those schools you will get a designjob anywhere, it is up to you and your motivation if it will be in car design, product design or somewhere else.

Hope this helps :wink: