BMW 4 Series.... BMW is back!

A bit awkward how the grille, sheet metal of the hood and the headlights all join together in that corner. But I couldn’t agree more about the beauty of the gap between the lamp housing and the hood. Architecturally inspired, clever, great looking. You can really imagine how that would feel to run your hand down the edge of.

Something even more wild…BMW i8

Seems like the front has been toned down. The windshield no longer goes all the way down the hood (expected), the doors are no longer glass (expected). However, it seems like they’ve kept the funky flying C-pillar and weird tail lights.

I don’t like the direction BMW is going. I thought these i cars were just silly concepts…

I’m not sure who is responsible, but BMW moving towards a design style that looks like it was made by a gundam influenced 10 year old boy to me just seems wrong. What happened to the refined teutonic rationalism. Hyandui is more BMW than BMW these days.

/sigh.

R

I hear you, R. I guess the ultimate driving machine of the future is an organic alien feline shape. I think this design is pretty sweet on its own. I wish one of the classic German brands would go back to simplicity and geometry, though.

I am also glad it’s not too Ashton Martin inspired. I’m a bit disappointed in Ford for going more Ashton/Hyundai hybrid (seen the new escape?). Although, I saw a new fusion in person the other day and it looked quite nice. Ford felt like a nice blend of ordinary and fresh, but now it’s gravitating toward everything else.

I wish BMW or Ford would make simple shaped cars, like the Flex. Basic shape, cool grille details, etc. Or Dodge for that matter. It just feels like such an opportunity if you do it right. I don’t want to drive an insectoid alien spaceship, just a car!

I think the I series cars are purposely going into left field. I think they’re realizing if you’re in the market for a high end electric vehicle you want to feel like you’re driving a space ship, and I don’t blame them.

I love the conservative stance that Audi has taken, and I think if you look at the general BMW lineup (The 3, 5, 7 series) they’ve actually brought the cars back from a lot of the flame surfacing and other things that Bangle-era haters despised. They’ve kept the surfacing very simple and while there are still some surfacing details, they don’t overpower (I don’t like the vents in particular, but thats a new element they’ve introduced going forward on some vehicles).

I think if you look at the rest of the cars they’ve done a nice job of keeping their elements without over surfacing them like Hyundai has gone and done. I think the Hyundai language actually works rather well in most cases.

There’s always 2 ends of design and the Flex is a nice vehicle, but to some people that’s just painfully boring.

I like what BMW is trying to do with the I because it’s the opposite of what Tesla is trying to do. The Model S is a nice car, that just happens to be electric. The i8 is a space ship that just happens to be a car. I’m glad someone in the mainstream is pushing that boundary.

In 2002 everyone screamed at how much they hated the new 7 series…and a few years later that same back end is on a Toyota Camry. If that doesn’t show that “radical” auto design can push into the mainstream very quickly, I don’t know what will.

R, in your opinion what car best sums up this ‘refined teutonic rationalism’? Are you sure that was the driving factor in the design of the car, or could it have been a limitation of the technology at the time? And is this ‘rationalism’ inherent in the styling itself, or combined with the marketing/brand associations one might have with German cars?

I don’t have time to pull up tons of sample photos, but I do think BMW (and MB to an extent) had a kind of rationalism to the design ethos. Very controlled surfaces, balanced, timeless design.

Look at anything including a 2002 to an e28.

R

If Richard can’t be bothered, I can.

German Rationalism as done by an Italian (Bruno Sacco):

I’d say the single most influential limousine design of the last 30 years. Every limo that Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln,
and many other brands did since that was a remodel of the W 124s lineage and architecture.
Audi is most heavyly borrowing from the Sacco phase Benzes, but they play that card well.

German Rationalism as done by the French (Paul Bracq):

And the most succesful of them all, again Italian (Giugiaro):

Of course all those designs also transport emotion. But the lineage is always toned down
and logical. There are almost no adornments. Only the radiators on the BMW and Merc.

The generation of designers who did that was heavily influenced by Bauhaus, Ulm and BRAUN.
Sadly they were replaced with an international bunch of stylists, who do not have a connection
to at least a European ethos and approach to design. As some of you might recognize I am
very critical of that as it in long term blurres brand values and at least in my recognition also
harms stock value. Handelsblatt even did a piece on Mercedes Benz design being in the
doldrums.

A most bizzarre puzzle of elements, that have no connection with each other whatsoever. The exterior
and interior are not even on the same planet.

Sorry I have to end this rant. It is utter useless, also

mo-i

P.S.: I have less of a problem with the i3 and i8 as they are first creations for a highly radical subbrand
of carbon fibre made electric cars. That has to show somehow in the design as well. Wonder how they
will be branded BMW i-series or I-cars by BMW ?

Also German and rational, and designed by Austrians.

I agree completely with mo-i. That’s why I complain so much about German cars. Design-wise, they are a mixed bag. However, their business model today limits the impact of bad design decisions on the balance book.

How much of that design Ethos was also a limitation of the engineering and tools of the time?

It was easy to design cars with very simple surfaces when you were working off of tape drawings and drafting tables. The tools couldn’t form such complex sheet metal, and the engineers certainly had issues designing and molding such complex parts.

I can’t find the article, but I remember reading a story on the side vents of the CTS, where they talked about how challenging it was to stamp the side vent detail where they have these 3 creases coming together.

It’s a rather nice detail IMO, but it’s one that wouldn’t have necessarily been possible without break thoughs in the engineering and tooling.

So when we go back to the mid 80’s and say “this is what all cars looked like” how much of it was due to the fact that they couldn’t build a car like this, so why would they design it?

Designers should be there to push the limits…if in 30 years we’re still designing cars that look like they came out of a sketchbook from the early 90’s whats the point?

I think BMW and Audi are doing the best job of keeping their designs as a tightly knit family. Look at some of the monstrosities Porsche has created recently…compare a 6 series Gran Coupe to a Panamera and that difference should be clear.

Good points mo-i and rk.

I don’t disagree, but was trying to dig deeper into the semantic of formed sheet metal, vs the larger brand association. Also trying to separate the pain of nostalgia for those “authentically German” older cars with the modern company designing cars for the future.

Bangle’s detractors were most certainly BMW enthusiasts and prior owners… but most of them did not understand that he was not designing the new cars for them, but for a newer, larger, international audience.

Hand-craft and solidity are evident in the sheet metal, but the Teutonic and precision notions are reinforced in the brand messages and a whole host of subconscious references. You can’t deny that there is a trace feeling of a 1940’s German war machine in the older BMWs, M-Bs, and VWs, and the relative dilution of those formal references is a cause for alarm in “Teutonic” design adherents.

(Mercedes IMHO especially is a mess of cross-referenced details and vintage-y country club references…even the high-end cars like the SLS are not immune.)

Indeed, it’s a shame how limited design used to be…

However, it is cheaper to stamp fairly flat surfaces.

Think that takes my point out of context - you’re specifically highlighting the difference of the art of coach built, hand rolled body panels which was never for mainstream vehicles like the 2002, E28, etc that were being discussed as icons of German design. The E-type is a hand made wonder like the 507…

That car is a piece of art, which even at it’s time, was the price equivalent of our high end supercars , $10k in the mid 50’s. In fact if you took the badges off and then compared it to this only 5 years down the road:

You would say “that can’t be the same company?” - which highlights my point - were those design directions made for distinctive design reasons, or were they made for practical engineering reasons at a time when you didn’t have money to add on an extra scoop or some fancy creases in the body panels?

Mike,

it is interesting, that you pick out the “Neue Klasse” as your example, as it indeed
was built by a cash strapped company and in those early cars it shows.

But I have another comparison. Two sports cars, both built buy companies which
could afford to back any decision they took. One being built with cost being almost
no objective and one being built to a tight budget to be affordable to the mass market:

There was a time, when “less is more” really meant something. When modesty was seen as decent
and not as a sign of poverty.

I do accept that those times are long gone, but nevertheless I am very strong in my views:
The italians working for Audi elevated the brand to new hights by adhering to the same design
principles as Apple and Braun. But the cosmopolitans who did those flashy surfaces under Bangle
and still do under Wagener do not only lack understanding for the BMW and Mercedes brands
their traditions and values, they do also lack some basic industrial design common sense.

BMW seemed back on track since Bangle and Fisker left. Their cars regained smart
detailing and sound proportions. I do surely hope the 4-series will not be an exception, as the
serial car just needs to loose some “sports car” chintz.

mo-i

Thanks mo-i for putting into pictures and better words than I could come up with, exactly what I was thinking.

In some ways actually by comparison MB has been much better at retaining the german-ess of their cars and legacy. A few misses along the way and I’m not loving all the designs, but the connection from all the way back to the ponton styles to the “new generation” W114s and then 190E’s and beyond is pretty strong.


R

It’s so hard to find examples of curvy old cars. It must be just cost that stops us from producing them.

I blame all of this boring design on globalization. In 1969, Munich (like everywhere else) was much more isolated. BMW built cars in that bubble.* Today, everything is almost Los Angelized. It’s hard for us to develop something truly surprising and delightful when we are being influenced by the same culture. Perhaps this will change with more local production in the future.

*even if the car designers are italian, their clients were German and that’s who chose the designs that made it to production. We’ll never see what they rejected…

I’d enjoy it a lot more if it had a little less BS slathered all over it. You know BMW used to be about low-BS styling. Then Bengal happened and everything has just spiraled out of control ever since. It looks to me like BMW is responding to the Asians. These door handles look like they could have been pulled off the LFA and the front and rear look like they were lifted directly off a Kia. On a similar note look at that new Mercedes with the door handles integrated into the accent line exactly like the… Accent. How come the Germans couldn’t figure that out… Oh wait.

Well the production version is out…

I still hate the fender vents and the superfluous badging, but all in all, it’s a pretty gorgeous car - especially in M Sport trim.

Its raining today so I am feeling a bit glum - gonna spew for a minute about my favorite car brand…

If I only intended to buy BMWs for the rest of my life I’d be seriously concerned about the brand - they’ve been steadily losing the aficionado crowd as they have muddied their own waters to satisfy larger median customer groups. They no longer have a strict maintenance schedule that ensures longevity of product operation & quality (pressure from competing brands forced them to adopt longer service intervals during warranty and eliminate some fluid changes during 1st ownership - making used BMWs a scary purchase decision), they’re phasing in elimination of some core product benefits in the name of technology and are paying a heavy price for it (no more oil dipsticks, addition of electronic steering (no more mechanical linkage) and forced ECU programming after battery changes (I can’t check my oil, I can’t feel the road any more and I can’t even swap my own battery).

They say no one keeps cars anymore so why design to maintain them, ughh. I had a similar conversation with a landscaper about cutting shears (he says he tells the owner they need sharpened and the owner says just go buy another pair) - I think some manufacturers are catering to one crown TOO much - BMW seems to be relying on styling and a glorious inline 6 cylinder to keep us interested while Audi, Cadillac and others quickly play catch up in all the other dynamic categories a car has to offer.

I want manual transmissions, oil dipsticks, minimal techno-nannies and the ability to replace parts myself!

A lot of those issues have come up, but after owning the new 3 series for a few months and test driving many E90 (with Hydraulics) I think the following points are worth mentioning:

-Everyone was up in arms about electric steering assist, but your point/assumption isn’t correct. (Here’s a good comparison article if anyone is bored)

Electric ASSIST simply means the hydraulic pump is replaced with an electric assembly to reduce steering force. The mechanical linkage is still present. Electric assist is NOT the same as steer by wire.

There are a LOT of awesome things about electric steering, and IMO it’s much aligned with the “Manual or die” mantra. A manual is great for the nostalgia of nuts and bolts but for the most part, modern dual clutch/F1 style gearboxes are simply faster, despite losing the experience. Electric steering is great since it’s force assist is adjustable (can be super light on highway cruising but stiffen up for sporty driving), gives me the benefit of having a variable steering ratio (great for tight parking lots), and it saves fuel economy and weight. Having lived with it for 6 months and gone back to drive the hydraulic after I found I don’t miss it, and the hydraulic systems feel clunky and slow by comparison. The steering variability helps make a very BIG car feel extremely light and nimble - I focus on where the car is pointing, how much more throttle I can give it, and how much more I can push the car. The communication from the wheels on the new 3 series is still very good, even if it’s not perfect.

For other things like the oil dipstick/service interval, you can argue that they’ve put something simpler and far smarter in place than the dipstick. I can go into my car status and see:
-Oil level & health (the 3000 mile oil myth is crap put together by people who wanted to sell more oil. I did 5000 miles with no problems in my last car and that was on standard Dino oil, synthetic in most cars is rated at 10000 miles. There’s also nothing to stop you from changing it yourself, it just isn’t free. If you want to change your oil every 7500 miles then consider it buy 1 get one free. Almost every manufacturer is doing this now.
-Tire pressure and temperature - thanks to a little coding hack you can get the exact PSI in every tire and tire temperature in real time. No more losing the little gauge.
-Brake pad life - Want to know if your pads are low? You can keep the caliper in the drawer and check that on the iDrive too. Will tell you how many miles they estimate you have left based on your driving history + current pad thickness.

Believe me I hear your cry for what you want, but car companies are always looking to push the envelope for faster, more efficient and more technology. Audi and Cadillac aren’t much different (try changing the water pump on an S4…you’ll discover you have to literally disassemble the ENTIRE front end of the car to do it).

I don’t disagree with the decisions, and you can’t argue with their logic - they simply sell far fewer of those niche products (big engines & MT gearboxes). But automobile magazines still give the 3 series the best car around year after year, so they’ve got to be doing something right even if others are catching up.

At the end of the day the 4 series is a great looking car, it has one of the best engines and chassis in the business, the technology to match it, and you can still get it with a 6 speed gearbox which is more than Lexus or Mercedes can offer you these days. I think that’s pretty darn good.

Also, I’m excited for the 235M - that should be a SWEET little car for guys who want something simpler, lighter, and still with a big engine.