Go fake or real? (Chair question)

I agree, the knock offs you show are pretty terrible in my opinion and can at best be described as “inspired by”. With a little bit of research you’ll be able to find some that are actually quite close to the originals produced by Vitra (Europe) or HermanMiller (US).

Not sure if they have the Eifel base ones but you might want to check out modernica.

Dumping the girlfriend is not an option btw

too bad… . …

If the “design” of the chair is what you appreciate, it doesn’t make any difference if the designer is dead… . buy the real McCoy and let your guests (or you) sit on folding chairs until you can afford more of the genuine chairs.

Otherwise, who cares?

Some things are worth more than even the most beautiful designer lump of plastic or fiberglass :smiley:

If the “design” of the chair is what you appreciate, it doesn’t make any difference if the designer is dead… . buy the real McCoy and let your guests (or you) sit on folding chairs until you can afford more of the genuine chairs.

Otherwise, who cares?

What I mean is that I like the design and proportions of the real one and the fake ones leave me thirsty with their wrong proportions. Anyway since starting this thread I have found that I can get exact copies for much cheaper. So my visual experience won’t get diluted in anyway.

If the designer was still alive I would buy the real official version so as not to rob the designer of his royalty or whatever. As the designer is dead I just don’t care about the ethical side of buying an exact replica.

I’d go with Modernica. Interestingly enough, they actually bought the Original Eames fiberglass molds, and had been using those to make their “knockoffs”. So the Knockoff was more original than the genuine ones? Unfortunately those molds finally had to be remade, but at least they had the original to base the new molds off of.

These chairs went meant to be produced cheaply, so in a way the knock off holds the original intent as well.

I have a couple of “authentic” DWR Eames LCWs, black aniline die… they always make me nervous because the finish is fragile and they were expensive. I love them though, and I’m at the point in my life where I can afford the genuine article. But I was thinking about getting a set of the fiberglass shell chairs for the kitchen table, and even I was going to go Modernica.

We had Knoll come in an give a presentation over their design history and talk a bit about their company a few years ago. The questions on Knockoff’s came up. Their response was something along the lines of. “if you can live the fact that you have a knockoff then by all means buy a knock off. Most people that see or sit in the knockff will never know. Only you will really know that you do not have an original, and if every time you look at it or sit in it doesn’t bother you, then buying a knockoff is ok.”

They later went on to say. They really don’t lose business from people buying knockoffs. They people who buy replicas often are not the target consumer for the products anyways. I sometimes wear a replica of a $3,500 watch, would I have bought a real version if I had the disposable income, maybe. Could I afford that now, no way.

BTW I’ve heard good things about this company. http://evincodesign.com/molded-wire-side-chair.html

Modernica Eiffel Tower Side Chair is $249.00. Vitra’s official Eames chair (plastic) is $270 so there is not much price difference. I am in Europe so even if Modernica was cheap it still is out of reach. There is a Modernica partner in my country but he sells them for almost double price :open_mouth: I get the impression that he passes them as the old original ones. Not sure as everything in his shop was out my price league.

I have seen some exact plastic copies (they look just like the Vitra official Eames versions) for $60. So I could get 6 of those and still be happy.

If you’re into it, try looking on craigslist or vintage stores for some originals at a good price. Some people know the value and so their not inexpensive, but if you’re luckily, they don’t know and you can score a deal. Of course, there will be more or less available depending on where you live. I feel like getting the “knockoff’s” is fine. Not everyone can afford the real deal, so why not. As stated, because of their original intent I would feel less bad. Anyone know of a good saarinen tulip table/chair knockoff by the way? haha

If you’re into it, try looking on craigslist or vintage stores for some originals at a good price. Some people know the value and so their not inexpensive, but if you’re luckily, they don’t know and you can score a deal. Of course, there will be more or less available depending on where you live. I feel like getting the “knockoff’s” is fine. Not everyone can afford the real deal, so why not. As stated, because of their original intent I would feel less bad. Anyone know of a good saarinen tulip table/chair knockoff by the way? haha

Thanks Yo, for the link to the Modernica fibre glass chairs.
Where did you get the information about the original
molds?
You know, I inherited an original Herman Miller chair.
And I’d like to have some more of them. The originals
have become increasingly valuable and my Granddads
one even more so, at least to me.

So a spare one would be nice. Has any one seen the ones
made of PP, that vitra is currently offering? They are
awful. Not even near to the original quality. And they
don’t offer them at a discount, not at all.

I’d probably go Modernica for our new dining room, if
they were available over here.

mo-i

I have tested the Vitra one. Why do you say the quality is bad? They seemed very well made to me. They obviously are not going to look or behave like the fiberglass ones as it is a completely different material.

I am considering breaking in and stealing few original ones from the local vintage shop. He has tons of shells stacked on top of each other :laughing:

I would have to say, buy real. As a designer, you should first and foremost support design. The designers and the company that PAID them to design the object. I only hope “my work” keeps clients coming back to hire me. If that company does not sell their product, they can not hire me again. Take Herman Miller for example, they sell Eames products. They also spend money on design in general. I want to not only support designers (dead or alive), but I want to support companies that value and PAY designers to design.

That’s all great, but the Eames’ intent was never to make $600 dining chairs. History lesson on the DCW:

Initially Charles had set out to find a solution to providing affordable, comfortable furniture that could be easily mass produced. His entries into the Organic Furniture competition were designed to have the seat and backrest joined in a single ‘shell’. The plywood, however, was prone to crack when bent into the sharp angles and had to be covered with upholstery. Through extensive trial and error Charles and Ray arrived at an alternate solution: create two separate pieces for the seat and backrest, joined by a plywood lumbar support, with plywood legs.

So again, which version of some of these pieces is more true to the Eames’ ethos? The $600 chair or the $200 chair?

Here is a little video on modernica making the fiberglass chair. Interestingly enough, modernica still uses fiberglass and Herman Miller I think (I could be wrong) only uses plastic.
When I saw this video I thought, there guys need to be wearing some masks. Fiberglass is some nasty stuff. The Making of The Fiberglass Chair - YouTube

This is what I really want for my place.

Nah, they are cheap Mexican laborers, management doesn’t give a shit.

I am also confused by this statement about quality. Vitra, you could argue, is making the “originals” as they own the license together with HermanMiller. Just in PP, not FG.
Personally, I prefer PP over Fiberglass, mostly because of durability and sustainability reasons.

Out of my experience, Vitra has always top notch quality. I am a huge fan of their blend of new and old design.
Granted, with a hefty price tag. But then again, in Switzerland, you won’t see any “cheap Mexican laborers” though. Also worth something.

I’m really surprised by the amount of people on this forum advocating “buy the ripoff”.

If something is in the public domain, then by all means buy it from whomever you like. Copyright/ Patents/ Design Protection have a limited lifespan to encourage innovation by providing a temporary monopoly. Once expired it belongs to all.
But if it isn’t in the public domain (and the death of the designer doesn’t necessarily mean it it is) buy the ‘real’ one.

http://authenticdesign.com.au/why-buy-authentic

Final thought- in the industrialised first world, we live in an age of abundance never before seen in history, regardless of current economic woes. Don’t nickle and dime it by buying crap, buy good stuff that has value.

It’s not that simple. The Eames chairs aren’t protected by patent or copyright, which is why there are knockoffs being produced without any threat of legal action. A design or utility patent, if there were any, would have expired sometime in the 60s. And of course, the Eameses are long dead. I don’t know who gets the Vitra / HM royalty checks now (Eames Demetrios maybe?), but I wouldn’t say there’s some clear moral obligation to buy a licensed one.

I know the law has been dicked around, but the original intent of copyright and patent laws was to give the original creator a limited period of exclusivity. I tend to think 20 years is fair, and with this chair we are well over 50 years, and that’s more than fair. If someone wants to knock me off 50 years from now, you have my blessing in the archived copy of this thread.

Besides, in this case nobody produces the “real” thing anymore- the Modernica version is decent, but the bases aren’t quite right, and the HM ones are plastic and that’s not right at all. The ones posted by the OP aren’t even knockoffs really. The seat shapes and bases are all different. They are pretty awful though, obvious clunky Chinese OEM stuff. Personally I’d spring for better quality, regardless of perceived moral issues.

You are not the only one :smiley:


Agree with everything he said.

Currently I am down to these two suppliers in Europe-

Around $80 for plastic version-
http://contemporaryfurniture-uk.co.uk/dining-chairs/87-replica-eames-dar.html

Around $190 for fibreglass version-
http://iconicinteriors.com/our_products/category/dining_chairs/eames_style_dar_dining_chair/

I am tempted to go for the $80 plastic one but not sure if the company is legit. Some of their gallery images are taken from Vitra website, like this one-
http://www.vitra.com/_assets/published/19/46dfc3dc881db2e.jpg

So if they are using such tactics then not sure I can trust them.

Iconicinteriors.com seems legit though.

We are arguing the same point. It now comes down to value- do you buy on price only, or spend a bit more to buy something that is well made, by a manufacturer that supports designers?

look at all the “Eames” chairs!!