Alias 2010 Vs Rhino 5 and the future outlook?

seems like english might be a second language for that guy ( also wonder if i met him on my internship), but he makes many valid, if vague, points about downstream user connectivity (modeling tolerances, etc) and bigger picture tools like lattice and transformer rig, which i’ve used and are extremly powerful, allowing you to manipulate a whole assembly of surfaces much like you’d direct model a single surface by moving CV’s, in fact i’d like to add those tools to assets of alias that no other software out there can currently touch.

he’s basically saying that if you are working in a relative vacuum in terms of process and your surface data does not need to transfer seemlessly downstream to an engineer as production surface than by all means use rhino, but if what you are creating is production surface, alias is the better tool. i get the feeling that most people here aren’t approaching this topic in terms of the grander product development process which he is addressing, so if that’s not a consideration than that argument may not apply at all.

i do also agree with him that solid modeling tools are poorly equiped for creative and organic surfacing, despite a lot of talk here at core and elsewhree blowing smoke up the behind of solidworks and pro-e

I’ve been lurking here - interesting to follow, especially since I’m not a big user of either Rhino nor Alias, though I’ve been interested in spending some time learning one of them…

anyway, my question: Is the surface model export from Rhino that poor that you cannot easily import it into a ProE type engineering software? I’ve heard before that Alias is poor at that as well (something about saving any fillets for the engineering SW for example)…

What do you guys think?

(hope this doesn’t derail, but it is an important part of using the software…)

No- that is not a problem- Rhino translates very well. I think what they are referring to is the number of cvs, continuity etc: when referring to surface quality in Rhino.

username3d- could you talk us through some of the specific functionality that is missing from Rhino when compared to Surface Studio? This discussion is so nebulous without an idea of specific features.

Could there ever be a better advert for Alias than this dude? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
No wonder Alias/ADK use his images on Studio Tool packaging. The guy is out of this world!

Yes !!
It put all this in perspective : even with everything I’ve been complaining about in Alias if you are good there seems to be no limits !
This guy is amazing:
Excellent imagination+sketcher+modeller+renderer+real life photographer !!

Maybe what I find the most amazing is the fact that (I think) he renders in Alias. There are some overheated chrome “oily rainbow” effects on exhaust pipes that make me drool ! :open_mouth: Have been displayed on the Alias 2007 calendar.
I can’t even imagine how he does all this detailing on Alias render engine.

The funny thing is that the guys at ADSK are so willing to use those images they use them for Inventor, when not a single bolt was made with Inventor ! Not to mention rendering…

Sleek he renders in Maya :wink:

Daniel: > I want to talk about my workflow - how I come from a thumbnail sketch on paper to a photorealistic scene with real babes featuring the vehicle. That includes 3D blocking on Alias, modeling and detailing the vehicle in AliasStudio, switching to Maya for Mapping and rendering in Mental Ray. All with the experiences I have from Car and Movie Design business.
You will get an overview over my general work approach, incl. how to photograph a photo model to composite it into your 3D scene.
I will also speak about my current visions of the future, near and far, look at the development in design, society and design, talk about my inspiration and why I do what I do.

Thanks for the info ! I’m slightly less inclined to hang myself now :smiley:

The guy is too good irrespective of what he uses to render so continue with your hanging plans. I will recycle your rope and hang myself as well :laughing:

Back on topic-

The new 3 versions with still extravagant price difference based on a few differences creates absurd situations : the former Studio (around 20k) user become a Surface user (around 20k, ok) but looses the sketching features ! The advice is > “just keep your Studio 2009 for sketching and switch from one to the other”. > Can you believe it ?

Yeah I read that interview and I was like WTF!!! Btw are the curve creation, manipulation and snapping tools superior in Rhino compared to Alias?

I wouldn’t say one is superior over the other. I know Rhino’s are a lot more quickly understandable (you can pick object snap right on the status bar to pick where or what you want to snap to), whereas in Alias there is a lot of power quickly available, but you need to know the shortcuts for snap to point, snap to curve, snap to isoparm, etc. Plus the fact that the rebuild curve commands are right on the side means if I want to take a curve, snap to exactly 1/7th increments, I can really quickly increase the spans of my curve to 7, snap to the edit points, and have an instantly accurate breakup of that line (whereas in the past I would take a measurement, divide by 7, and then have to duplicate or translate each object manually).

Cyberdemon can I do any basic drafting/dimensioning (automatic or manually) in Alias Design?

Could you…yeah.

Would you want to…I don’t think so.

I think Rhino is a way better tool for basic stuff, with a much lower learning curve. The functionality is there (my boss did the layout for his house in Alias), but IMO it’s probably clunkier then you’d want to.

Cyber thanks for all your posts man. I have been digging through some starter tutorials for Rhino and Alias, I don’t know why I feel that Alias is more easier for my taste. I have barely scratched the surface so can’t be sure. I sold my soul to Autodesk for Maya already so might as well sell my body to them.

I am a one man shop and I can afford Alias but I worry if I hit a wall then I am on my own. I will keep looking through both apps for next few days and then make a final decision. Which ever I pick I won’t look back and just focus on it.

My heart says Alias but my mind says Rhino :unamused:

What kind of work are you doing?

If you’re just doing mostly basic designs, lots of simple curve built surfaces, technical drawings, dimensioned drawings, I think Rhino is a great tool for the price.

If you are doing a lot of surfacing intensive work, lots of pulling CV’s and making variations of the same designs - then Alias is where it’s at. If the words “curvature continuity” aren’t in your vocab, then Rhino is IMO the best bang for the buck.

Mainly visualization but don’t want to be tied down to doing that forever hence was asking general questions about drafting. Have done zero drafting work recently.

If you’re just doing mostly basic designs, lots of simple curve built surfaces, technical drawings, dimensioned drawings, I think Rhino is a great tool for the price.

If you are doing a lot of surfacing intensive work, lots of pulling CV’s and making variations of the same designs - then Alias is where it’s at. If the words “curvature continuity” aren’t in your vocab, then Rhino is IMO the best bang for the buck.

I do complex looking designs with organic surfaces. The thing is that I do them in Maya using Polys with help of Maya Nurbs sometimes. Model like this car I could make in Maya no sweat (just as an example from google)-

Would Rhino give me the freedom to create such surfaces? I know they keep repeating that Saleen supercar was done in Rhino but personally I find that car an insult to the term “supercar” :smiley:

Most cars on the Rhino site are below average with few exceptions. I picked cars for example as cars can have some of the most complex surfaces found in ID.

If you want to do that level of modelling then you would definately want Alias. The fact that you use Maya means you’ll have a VERY low barrier of entry from CAD->Rendering. Alias also has an awesome realtime visualization functionality as long as you have the hardware to use it.

I think Rhino is great for students, but when you start thinking of complex surfaces like that, theres a lot of things that are tough to do cleanly in Maya with Polys/Sub D’s that work really well in Alias.

I’ve done a lot of work in Maya myself (including the obligitory car) and looking back at it, while I got a good shape and pretty renderings, the surface quality was junk and showed up very clearly in my reflections. (A highlight would jump from being smooth to being totally straight and cockeyed)

To testin2010 :
I agree with Cyberdemon, the Alias dimensioning and creation of blueprints (is it still correct to use this term ?) tools are IMO poor.
For example I never got used to the measuring tools : they just don’t snap as I want. I’ve used a workaround for ages : snapping a line, its length appears in real time then I delete it. Because as Cyb’d says the snapping is elaborate : you can snap to grid OR points OR curves/surfaces edges/isoparms with keyboard shortcuts. They are lots of those : all the combo possible between Shift/Ctrl/Alt and right/center/left mouse buttons. First month feels like you are learning guitar ! (Now the snapping has interface buttons on the screen top right too).

Anyway what I wanted to say is, from my experience, with complex shapes you use a workflow that simply doesn’t includes drafting.
You make a 3D file. Use it for rendering. Send it to the modelmaker. Send it to the manufacturer R&D. No need for 2D.

My advice would be :
As you already have Maya I guess ADSK may further increase interoperability so that’s nice for renderings. But not sure about this because the softwares ended in two differents departements (Manufacturing and entertainment). They seem more inclined to matching Showcase and Alias.

About the learning : I said somewhere else that the huge Help file is good. As boring as it could be read as much as you can of it. Everything is written down, somewhere in it. And if you managed to learn Maya you certainly can learn Studio.
And the usual advice : what are they using in your ecosystem ?
If the manufacturer you are aiming to work for uses 2D Autocad what I wrote doesn’t make sense.

Ultimately, as you said (e.g. Daniel Simon), your output will depend on your skills rather than your Alias or Rhino choice. So there is no bad choice ! :wink:

At least you just have to choose between 2 softwares ! In entertainment how many are they ? Maya, 3DS Max, Softimage XSI, LightWave, Cinema4D, Modo, Blender…

Thanks for the posts. I picked Alias in the end. Something about Rhino was just not clicking for me. Being a Maya user Alias design just felt more right for my needs. So for next few months I will be sweating it out learning it. So far Alias had felt natural to me apart from “pick nothing” bull :imp:

am looking to make a similar choice soon… anyone know the cost of Alias Design in the UK?


Probably muliply US price x 1.5 :smiling_imp: :neutral_face:

Try this-

Strangely on my browser it shows no reseller under UK LOL Highly unlikely though.

I think there is no need for a reseller, you can buy direct :

http://store.autodesk.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&productID=122671700&pgm=12938000&ThemeID=1293100&Currency=USD

Before choosing with or without support search how much is it now per year : it doesn’t comes cheap usually !