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Cyberdemon
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I get people who are "pro" no headphone jack saying "Get with the times, we don't need no wires!"

The reality though is the 3.5mm jack has not been hindering the development of compelling smartphones (unlike things like say the pesky USB A connector or Ethernet cable).

I get the advantage that the lightning connector can bring (built in noise cancellation, etc) but if Samsung can make a small, lightweight waterproof phone WITH a 3.5mm jack, the Apple move is dongle-sales bullshit.

I am already annoyed by the fact that my $250 headphones have an external battery which dangles around in my pocket and makes it even bulkier to carry. Now add a dongle to that (especially a dongle with a COMPLETELY rigid connector that has no opportunity to move or twist and you're asking for it.

As a guy who built mobile devices, 3.5mm jacks were one of the #1 failure points, and they are typically VERY forgiving when it comes to having the wire twist or get pulled on (like any time you snag your headphones and then rip the phone out of your hand).

I can almost guarantee there will be a site dedicated to people who now have snapped Thunderbolt connectors jammed in their port.

It's a scumbag move for dongle money, and there is no reason they couldn't start shipping Thunderbolt or Bluetooth headphones AND keep the 3.5mm jack.

Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby Cameron » September 8th, 2016, 4:02 pm

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Cameron
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Sure it's a cash grab, bu I would totally trade a dedicated aux jack for waterproofing, a better camera and better overall performance, along with a free adapter. Wireless headphones are awesome, anyone who has used them can understand why people will appreciate them.
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I'm a pretty keen Apple early adopter (first imac on release (pre-ordered), first iPod, first iPad (drove to US to get it), first iPhone (drove to US to get it)), but at the same time pretty much a regular user (don't upgrade to every version, usually skip several builds, don't "hack" anything, don't listen to music that much, etc.

I've been on board and praised the long term vision of Apple getting rid of legacy drives/connectors for a long time and seen how they were able (with intent I'd like to believe) transition the regular Joe consumer from a iMac with no floppy, to using CDs, to burning CDs to putting them on an iPod to downloading songs (and apps) from a online store, to Apple Music (for good or bad), etc.

There is no way they could be so strong in so many areas of the ecosystem from hardware to software while controlling the sandbox to keep things generally solid (3rd party apps, etc. ... (no more downloading something and finding it doesn't work with your version hardware/software or has bugs) for most things to "just work".

That being said, I think getting rid of the 3.5mm jack is functionally big mistake, but will be minor over time.

Aside from the technical (waterproof or thickness tradeoffs I can't really speak to, but don't think the previous phones or competitors phones were doing too bad), the move breaks the main function for a lot of users - the ability to listen, (and while while charging), on any headphones, anytime. Headphones are ones of the main ways people personalize a device from what I've seen. Some want audiophile quality, some want cheap, etc. .... some want to pretend they are an audiophile, but don't know anything and buy Beats.;)

I don't listen to much music at all, but when I do I use the $99 in ear Apple earbuds (normal ones fall out and I hate big cans). I use them on a plane, while going to bed, and the odd time just walking around. I'm pretty careful but still they seem to break at one end or the other about once a year or so, and I replace them. I also always travel with a backup set of the cheap ones that came with the phone, just incase they break mid flight on a 15 hours flight to China...

Will the new Apple ones fit in my ears? Will enough 3rd party manufacturers get on board to offer alternatives? Will all earphones be bluetooth in the future and concerns be moot about battery life and sound quality? Will the charging issues go away or not be a problem for majority of users (complaints about them not lasting a long flight are valid, but no device has a battery that lasts forever, laptop, phone, etc.)

I don't know the future, but I can learn from the past.

In the meantime, I'm not thinking it's a cash grab for dongles, but a mid term solution and will work it itself out like other "big problems for Apple" such as -
-no floppy drives
-no ethernet ports
-no replaceable batteries
-no memory sticks on mobile devices
-no usb ports on iPad
-no stylus for iPad (the Pen thing is a special case, most are fine with fingers)

Indeed there are valid concerns about losing earbuds, dealing with stupid dongles, etc. but if it allows Apple to innovate ahead and they saw the 3.5mm jack as a barrier to doing some things in the future (brain implant wireless control, 3D sound or multiple device input, etc.), maybe it is good to break with the past and move ahead. I can't think they would eliminate the 3.5mm jack just for fun to piss people off or to sell more Apple AirPod Beats...


R

PS. Happy that I'm typing this on my Bluetooth wireless keyboard, not an old ADB one with curly telephone cable cord ;)
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Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby yo » September 8th, 2016, 6:00 pm

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Richard, you are right, the eventual goal is no ports... and no wires. When I was consulting we were doing concepts around this for the big chip makers back in 2010. You can imagine a phone with no ports, wirelessly charging, wireless input and output. It is not a huge stretch of the imagination noting the trend as you clearly pointed out. We are almost there. You can now wirelessly print, use BT for keyboard and mouse, synching audio to video over BT is still hard but will get there (this may be a problem with their buds FYI, some phones have wireless charging, BT audio has a lag, and unless the video is paused and the lag is matched within a microsecond you will detect a lip synch effect). Obviously waterproofing, durability, and construction all gets easier. It is hard to make the 3.5 waterproof from my experience. Ironically it is easier to make a speaker driver completely sealed (with they obviously did here) with s combination of internal seals and hydrophobic grille cloths...

Re: AirPods...Discuss

Postby Azrehan » September 8th, 2016, 6:15 pm

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Azrehan
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I recently travelled Australia to the USA and back, and hoped to get some nice over ear headphones while I was there, but didn't end up doing so.

On the plane, I used my iPhone 6 with the headphones to listen to podcasts but fell asleep a few times. I could imagine losing one of these on a plane like I have with ear plugs many times. What happens if you lose the left one but still have the right and a charger? Will you have to buy a full set and charger?

I can imagine advertisements on Ebay: "Left Airpod and charger rarely used. Incomplete as I lost right one"

Re: AirPods...Discuss

Postby yo » September 8th, 2016, 6:20 pm

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I'm going to be doing a little topic merging, stand by here guys. We have the same convo going in two forums.

Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby yo » September 8th, 2016, 6:21 pm

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done, hopefully this makes some kind of sense.


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Thanks for the shout-out, Mr-914. Dunno if you saw my follow up this morning or not . . .

My objections to the Air Buds are more or less as follows and in no particular order:
    -- I already lose my headphones on a semi regular basis and I use them daily. (Where did I put them down? Pocket, purse, backpack, desk, car, etc.) The idea of them being separate pieces is a nightmare for me.
    -- I have tiny gopher-like ears and I struggle to find in-ear headphones that fit comfortably and don't fall out as it is - although I have pretty good luck with the current generation of Apple headphones.
    -- I run with my phone - and my in-ear headphones. Fit matters - so does the security of how they fit in my ear while running. Also, sweat affects the security and fit of the headphones. As a runner, this really matters to me. And, yes, they do fall out from time to time while I'm running.
    -- My iPhone 6 battery does not last a full day with general usage. I have no confidence that the "5 hour" battery life on the air buds will perform any better than my phone battery - a recurring issue with every iPhone I've owned. Past experience tells me that 5 hour charge will be more like 2 1/2 hours within 6 months of daily use.
    -- I regularly run longer than 2 1/2 hours. And I fly longer distances than that almost weekly. Marathon training will be right out with these headphones - assuming I could keep them in my ears while running in the first place. So will long haul travel.
    -- On long haul flights, I regularly use the in-flight entertainment. Now, I'll need 2 sets of earphones? NO.
    -- I will lose one of them. Immediately. It will piss me off greatly - especially at that price point.
    -- I will lose one and then step on it hurting my foot, making me swear like a sailor AND it will break the air bud which will piss me of and make me swear even more.
    -- Because I travel so much and fly long distances and have a phone with a crappy battery, I regularly find myself walking through airports with my earphones plugged in AND with the phone connected to a battery. Guess that's not happening anymore.

In short, I don't see this "innovation" making my life any better or easier or more pleasurable. It's just more stuff to buy, keep track of and maintain. It wasn't broken. It didn't need to be fixed. I don't need more stuff to lose.

What I need is a better battery. THAT would be amazing. And appreciated.
Last edited by Michelle_Berryman on September 8th, 2016, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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designbreathing
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My biggest problem with my studio guitar rig is the headphone wires. Wireless in ear monitoring has been around awhile for the stage players, now it has become affordable and feasible for the home studio players.

I look forward now to being untethered to my interface box headphone jack and wandering about my space.

Thank you Apple...
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I've followed the discussions on this forum since it began...Asia is the future and I'm here to share my views and experiences.

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Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby bcpid » September 8th, 2016, 8:14 pm


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My opinion is wireless + earbuds = fail, no matter how it is executed, for every reason Michelle mentioned.

For cans, wireless could be an acceptable alternative, but ONLY if the sound fidelity is pristine - at least as good as my studio monitors (no compromises at all), coupling requires as little thought and effort as plugging into a jack (if I see a list of devices, that's dealbreaker - I want to touch the headphones to the source or point them at the source for half a second and be done pairing. That is the only acceptable method of pairing), and battery life is something I never have to think about. Ever. Only under those conditions is wireless acceptable for cans. Otherwise, I'll keep my 1/4 inch jack.

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louis leblanc
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Not the first time Apple is early on the peripheral removal game but I think they're too early this time around. I'm too young to remember the floopies coming out of Macs. But the Air removed the optical drive but was one of many laptops available from Apple and the trade-off in size was obvious. The optical drive later came off the rest of the line but was met with little resistance as it was expected and very rarely used. The external optical drive was fairly practical for those that need it as you rarely use optical drives on the go anyways...

The removal of user replaceable batteries, Ethernet port and so on was met with little resistance as they were truly on their way out.

It seems lately Apple has been stagnating on true innovation and making questionable design choice mostly on style, one-up-manship and frankly delusions of grandeur.

Having a single port on the Macbook is silly. Other manufacturers have managed to match the size and integrate a decent selection of ports.

Hiding the charging port under the mouse is silly. It's happen several times I've needed to use my wireless mouse and I'm glad the port is out front and the cable used is the same as my phone so I always have one in my bag.

Now this latest iPhone. I think the removal of the 3.5mm plug is a bad move. Sure lots of users will learn to live without it. But we did live without smartphones at one point too... :lol: Contrarily to the other ports Apple removed prior to this one, they were certainly on their way out. Also, their use, on computers was mostly done in stationary conditions, not on the go like a phone. The 3.5mm plug was one of the few truly universal standard. Just recently has there been alternatives, other wise every headphone with a cable uses 3.5mm.

The 3.5mm jack just freakin' works. Bluetooth always has a delay making it annoying when watching video and unusable for music creation or gaming. It's always a crap-shoot when switching connected devices weather everything will get recognized and paired properly. Especially in ear bud format, the battery life will never be great.

What was truly gained by removing the jack? Apparently interference with the camera module and water resistance. I personally don't care about the water proof aspect but it seems odd Samsung managed to do it with a headphone jack. Why not make the overall envelope slightly larger if you really need to add hardware?

If they really had courage, why not go with a USB-C port? Their Macbook is now using it and most Android manufacturers are switching to it. I think it has the potential to become a very universal standard, in the way the 3.5mm was.

Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby mas » September 8th, 2016, 9:45 pm


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I am really surprised at the comments coming through.

If you are concerned about paying for the the earbuds then don't buy them and just use the ones apple give with the phone.
If you are concerned about losing an earbud then don't buy them and just use the ones apple give with the phone.
If you are concerned about losing power after 5 hours then don't buy them and just use the ones apple give with the phone.
If you have old ones then just use them with the adaptor that comes with the phone.
If you are upset that the jack was removed then don't be because it is still technically there, it's just slightly further away from the phone.
If you lose the adaptor then buy another for $9 while you buy another set of earbuds they were attached to. THIS IS THE WORST CASE SCENARIO.

Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby bcpid » September 8th, 2016, 10:19 pm


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mas - They took something that wasn't broken and broke it. The 1/8 inch jack is a universal standard that works really, really well. There is no reason to be surprised at the comments. Forcing users to connect headphones via adapter to a device that functions as a primary music player is an antagonistic move. It isn't innovation. It's crass commerce and it only benefits Apple.

Re: No headphone jack on the iPhone 7... really?

Postby mas » September 9th, 2016, 2:10 am


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bcpid wrote:mas - They took something that wasn't broken and broke it. The 1/8 inch jack is a universal standard that works really, really well. There is no reason to be surprised at the comments. Forcing users to connect headphones via adapter to a device that functions as a primary music player is an antagonistic move. It isn't innovation. It's crass commerce and it only benefits Apple.


That's a bit over the top.
You can still listen to music, in multiple ways, and you only need the adapter if you don't want to use the earphones they give you when you buy one. No one is forcing anyone to do anything and there is so much choice out there now for consumers they can easily go somewhere else, however, my bet would be on them selling a gabazillion.

While I wouldn't say it is mindblowing innovation it is still innovative if only incrementally (Not sure if anyone else currently does it?) and I can see the potential for it to benefit far far more people than just Apple, more so than if they just left the jack in it. Universal standards have always changed and were never meant to be eternal, just like the jack.

Again, still surprised.


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mas wrote:
bcpid wrote:
Again, still surprised.

You're surprised about a board called "design discussions" discussing design decisions?

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