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Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby givemeaname » July 2nd, 2011, 5:19 pm


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mo-i wrote:Has any one seen the ones
made of PP, that vitra is currently offering? They are
awful. Not even near to the original quality. And they
don't offer them at a discount, not at all.


I have tested the Vitra one. Why do you say the quality is bad? They seemed very well made to me. They obviously are not going to look or behave like the fiberglass ones as it is a completely different material.

I am considering breaking in and stealing few original ones from the local vintage shop. He has tons of shells stacked on top of each other :lol:

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby blaster701 » July 2nd, 2011, 7:43 pm

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I would have to say, buy real. As a designer, you should first and foremost support design. The designers and the company that PAID them to design the object. I only hope "my work" keeps clients coming back to hire me. If that company does not sell their product, they can not hire me again. Take Herman Miller for example, they sell Eames products. They also spend money on design in general. I want to not only support designers (dead or alive), but I want to support companies that value and PAY designers to design.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby bcpid » July 2nd, 2011, 8:34 pm


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That's all great, but the Eames' intent was never to make $600 dining chairs. History lesson on the DCW:

Initially Charles had set out to find a solution to providing affordable, comfortable furniture that could be easily mass produced. His entries into the Organic Furniture competition were designed to have the seat and backrest joined in a single 'shell'. The plywood, however, was prone to crack when bent into the sharp angles and had to be covered with upholstery. Through extensive trial and error Charles and Ray arrived at an alternate solution: create two separate pieces for the seat and backrest, joined by a plywood lumbar support, with plywood legs.

So again, which version of some of these pieces is more true to the Eames' ethos? The $600 chair or the $200 chair?

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby mrtwills » July 3rd, 2011, 6:48 am

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Here is a little video on modernica making the fiberglass chair. Interestingly enough, modernica still uses fiberglass and Herman Miller I think (I could be wrong) only uses plastic.
When I saw this video I thought, there guys need to be wearing some masks. Fiberglass is some nasty stuff.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby mrtwills » July 3rd, 2011, 7:14 am

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This is what I really want for my place.
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Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby scrotum » July 3rd, 2011, 4:02 pm

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mrtwills wrote:...When I saw this video I thought, there guys need to be wearing some masks. Fiberglass is some nasty stuff.


Nah, they are cheap Mexican laborers, management doesn't give a shit.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby bepster » July 3rd, 2011, 7:51 pm

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givemeaname wrote:
mo-i wrote:Has any one seen the ones
made of PP, that vitra is currently offering? They are
awful. Not even near to the original quality. And they
don't offer them at a discount, not at all.


I have tested the Vitra one. Why do you say the quality is bad? They seemed very well made to me. They obviously are not going to look or behave like the fiberglass ones as it is a completely different material.

I am considering breaking in and stealing few original ones from the local vintage shop. He has tons of shells stacked on top of each other :lol:


I am also confused by this statement about quality. Vitra, you could argue, is making the "originals" as they own the license together with HermanMiller. Just in PP, not FG.
Personally, I prefer PP over Fiberglass, mostly because of durability and sustainability reasons.

Out of my experience, Vitra has always top notch quality. I am a huge fan of their blend of new and old design.
Granted, with a hefty price tag. But then again, in Switzerland, you won't see any "cheap Mexican laborers" though. Also worth something.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby sanjy009 » July 4th, 2011, 12:39 am

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I'm really surprised by the amount of people on this forum advocating "buy the ripoff".

If something is in the public domain, then by all means buy it from whomever you like. Copyright/ Patents/ Design Protection have a limited lifespan to encourage innovation by providing a temporary monopoly. Once expired it belongs to all.
But if it isn't in the public domain (and the death of the designer doesn't necessarily mean it it is) buy the 'real' one.

http://authenticdesign.com.au/why-buy-authentic

Final thought- in the industrialised first world, we live in an age of abundance never before seen in history, regardless of current economic woes. Don't nickle and dime it by buying crap, buy good stuff that has value.

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It's not that simple. The Eames chairs aren't protected by patent or copyright, which is why there are knockoffs being produced without any threat of legal action. A design or utility patent, if there were any, would have expired sometime in the 60s. And of course, the Eameses are long dead. I don't know who gets the Vitra / HM royalty checks now (Eames Demetrios maybe?), but I wouldn't say there's some clear moral obligation to buy a licensed one.

I know the law has been dicked around, but the original intent of copyright and patent laws was to give the original creator a limited period of exclusivity. I tend to think 20 years is fair, and with this chair we are well over 50 years, and that's more than fair. If someone wants to knock me off 50 years from now, you have my blessing in the archived copy of this thread.

Besides, in this case nobody produces the "real" thing anymore- the Modernica version is decent, but the bases aren't quite right, and the HM ones are plastic and that's not right at all. The ones posted by the OP aren't even knockoffs really. The seat shapes and bases are all different. They are pretty awful though, obvious clunky Chinese OEM stuff. Personally I'd spring for better quality, regardless of perceived moral issues.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby givemeaname » July 4th, 2011, 7:52 am


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mrtwills wrote:This is what I really want for my place.

You are not the only one :D


Scott Bennett wrote:.............


Agree with everything he said.

Currently I am down to these two suppliers in Europe-

Around $80 for plastic version-
http://contemporaryfurniture-uk.co.uk/d ... s-dar.html

Around $190 for fibreglass version-
http://iconicinteriors.com/our_products ... ing_chair/

I am tempted to go for the $80 plastic one but not sure if the company is legit. Some of their gallery images are taken from Vitra website, like this one-
http://www.vitra.com/_assets/published/ ... 81db2e.jpg

So if they are using such tactics then not sure I can trust them.

Iconicinteriors.com seems legit though.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby sanjy009 » July 5th, 2011, 2:48 am

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givemeaname wrote:
Scott Bennett wrote:.............


Agree with everything he said.



We are arguing the same point. It now comes down to value- do you buy on price only, or spend a bit more to buy something that is well made, by a manufacturer that supports designers?

look at all the "Eames" chairs!!
http://au.alibaba.com/products/ray-and-charles-eames-chair.html

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby Travisimo » July 5th, 2011, 6:50 am

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mrtwills wrote:If you're into it, try looking on craigslist or vintage stores for some originals at a good price. Some people know the value and so their not inexpensive, but if you're luckily, they don't know and you can score a deal. Of course, there will be more or less available depending on where you live. I feel like getting the "knockoff's" is fine. Not everyone can afford the real deal, so why not. As stated, because of their original intent I would feel less bad. Anyone know of a good saarinen tulip table/chair knockoff by the way? haha


Try Ebay... but watch out for "Eames like" or or "eames sarinnen herman miller knoll" type adds.. they try to mislead with the wording. Also to you Austin/Minnepolis/Raleigh people - IBM has surplus sales all the time and let go of some amazing 50s modern stuff from Saarinen/Eames/HermanMiller/Knoll for very cheap

so anyway, I bought a knock-off Burke Saarinen-like Tulip table back in the day, and I have regretted it ever since. The real thing would have cost a couple hundred more, but I didn't think I could swing it at the time and forever regretted the decision.

Go for the real thing, and even if you get sick of it, it will still have resale value.

FYI the older vintage stuff can sometimes be a little worse for wear... dings, scratches, rust, etc.

50's modern nerds can geek out to some of the details on the vintage pieces however, for example I have an Eames aluminium group chair with 4 legs in the base - but they changed it to 5 later on for more stability.

Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby mo-i » July 5th, 2011, 7:39 am

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wrong thread, sorry.

mod, please delete.

mo-i
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Just find some old HM ones for cheap and pop the base pads off and re-glue them to the alternate location and get the eiffile legs from modernca. That's what I would do. I also find good stuff when I walk around places. (I have two mustard colored ones with the stacking/locking bases) and I had a avocado green leather arm chair with swivel base, all three where found in the trash. I have also found a few neat sofas and a Knoll Bertoia diamond lounge in the trash.....


But to answer your question, get the real one, even if it's one at a time. They hold their value better for resale, and it's something that you will use everyday, and you could use everyday for the rest of your life. but I would jump on that fake RAR for seventy quid, you can save and dump that later for like 50GBP on CL
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Re: Go fake or real? (Chair question)

Postby Lmo » July 6th, 2011, 2:02 pm

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Get 'em while they're hot. 3 sets on eBay right now.

6 for $2,200
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-VINTAGE-Eames-Her ... 45fb850fa7

$500 starting bid. No bidders and 15 minutes left (Wednesday July 6th, 12:00 PST)
http://cgi.ebay.com/EAMES-ERA-CHAIR-SET ... 2311ef834b

2 for $700
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-HERMAN-MILLER- ... 3f0b78b35e

Just the Eiffel part ... build your own.

2 @ $90
http://cgi.ebay.com/Eames-Herman-Miller ... 3a67325249

6 @ $90
http://cgi.ebay.com/Eames-Herman-Miller ... 3a6217e935
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