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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby e-anderson » March 12th, 2010, 3:52 pm


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warrenginn wrote:
cg wrote:We don't even have an IDSA chapter here in San Diego (a county of 3 million people!) so I can't really participate in IDSA. So I've turned to virtual designer communities like C77, plus my local network of friends and colleagues for that face-to-face aspect. And it seems clear to me that as the world gets smaller, virtual communities make more and more sense.

IDSA was most useful to me as a student in Midwest. The value proposition then was that the conferences were the only way to see other designers portfolios and to hear about new methods, and the only way to connect with other professionals--particularly potential employers. That's definitely no longer the case. So what is the value-prop today? Why should I pick IDSA over PDMA, DMI, IxDA, CHI, TED, UXWeek etc?


I don't think anyone's asking you to necessarily pick one over another. Everyone has a different way of networking and for some, online interaction is the best. For others, they're looking for more direct, personal interaction.

Knowing you live in San Diego, I can understand a bit of your frustration. California is obviously very spread out and, like many states, figuring out where the Chapters should be located has as much to do with defining the local interest as it does anything else. So my reaction is: why not start a San Diego Chapter? Are there enough designers locally to warrant it? Some states have several Chapters (like Ohio), while some actually share a Chapter (e.g., the Carolina Chapter covers North and South Carolina, so we have several Vice Chairs to cover different areas). There's no reason why there can't be a San Diego extension of the LA Chapter, or an entirely separate one (provided there's sufficient interest).

Maybe that's part of the problem: Maybe you've just been missing out on all of this face-to-face IDSA interaction I've bee talking about because you live to far away from a Chapter... But that's a fixable problem.

w


I echo Warren. New chapters form because people in an area find the need. Successful chapters respond to local needs. IDSA provides resources and support systems for folks to be successful in managing their chapter. But each chapter has its own identity and unique way of contributing so that ideally the larger community and individual are rewarded. Yes, this is fixable!

Eric Anderson
President, IDSA

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby cg » March 12th, 2010, 6:01 pm

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I'd be curious to hear what Frank Tyneski thinks since he's lived and worked here in San Diego for years.

Personally, I don't think there is a need or critical-mass here. Actually, I think Industrial Design is declining here while Interaction Design is expanding. And although IDSA includes Interaction Design, Interaction Designers tend to belong to CHI or IxDA.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby carton » March 12th, 2010, 7:12 pm


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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby mrtwills » March 12th, 2010, 8:15 pm

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carton wrote:
cg wrote:I'd be curious to hear what Frank Tyneski thinks since he's lived and worked here in San Diego for years.

Personally, I don't think there is a need or critical-mass here. Actually, I think Industrial Design is declining here while Interaction Design is expanding. And although IDSA includes Interaction Design, Interaction Designers tend to belong to CHI or IxDA.


That's actually a really good point, there has been a lot of call to just disband IDSA that I have heard. I prefer fixing it, but there may be a point when it needs to absorb into something else.

In fact, there may be a point when industrial design needs to disband as a profession. We may find ourselves taking some things from it, like our ability to communicate visually, the research, design thinking or process, and such and move on. Architects, graphic designers and interactive designers are already grabbing onto the design process as a methodology, I think that might be one of the main strengths of the industrial designer.

ID isn't about styling anymore, or at least that's what we try to convince everyone, so what is it about? There is a point that is quickly approaching if not here already at which the go to person for materials will need to be a materials scientist. It doesn't work to try to position ourselves as some sort of light engineer, nor do I want to be a glorified CAD drafter like a mechanical designer.


Wow, you're really looking to catch some heat on that one. Disband industrial design as a profession? As long as there are products there will be a need for product designers so I feel pretty good that were not an endangered species. I don't think I will ever need a "materials scientist" to help me out. You sound like someone who either does not work in the industry or is disgruntled about it. I have never met someone who tried to position themselves as a light engineer. This is not the discussion to bring this up but engineering and product design are different and they both always have and always will have their own place. IDSA does not need to be broken up either, or fall into some other category. It's funny some people make the argument industrial design is too broad a term already and you want to wrap it up into something else all together. I have never disagreed with a post on this forum more than what you just wrote.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby carton » March 12th, 2010, 8:34 pm


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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby mrtwills » March 12th, 2010, 8:47 pm

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Thanks for letting me know, I'll print that off and post it on my refrigerator.

I think the representation from IDSA in this topic has done a good job of answering questions and pointing out solutions that are in the works. They have already mentioned that they are looking at other organizations to see what would fit and not fit into IDSA.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby carton » March 12th, 2010, 8:59 pm


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mrtwills wrote:Thanks for letting me know, I'll print that off and post it on my refrigerator.

I think the representation from IDSA in this topic has done a good job of answering questions and pointing out solutions that are in the works. They have already mentioned that they are looking at other organizations to see what would fit and not fit into IDSA.


You're right, My apologies, I'll think twice next time.
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Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby cg » March 12th, 2010, 9:23 pm

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I don't think ID is going anywhere, but I am disappointed that ID has seemed to take a narrow focus in practice.

As an Industrial Designer turned Interaction Designer, I do feel abandoned by IDSA and the ID community.
Yet I firmly believe that Interaction Design is, in-fact, Industrial Design.

1) The definitions are interchangeable:

IDSA on ID: "Industrial Design (ID) is the professional service of creating and developing concepts and specifications that optimize the function, value and appearance of products and systems for the mutual benefit of both user and manufacturer."

IxDA on IxD: "Interaction Design (IxD) defines the structure and behavior of interactive systems. Interaction Designers strive to create meaningful relationships between people and the products and services that they use, from computers to mobile devices to appliances and beyond. "

2) The term "Interaction Design" and it's practice was defined by Industrial Designer, Bill Moggridge.

3) IDSA's first president was Henry Dreyfuss, the father of user-centered design. Back then they called it Human Factors and today many HFE's are practicing "Interaction Design" as members of HFES.

So what I want to know from IDSA is, as an Interaction Designer, should I be parting ways with you? And if not, why?

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby yo » March 13th, 2010, 10:08 pm

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Just catching back up with all of this after a busy week. Man, this discussion has taken some twists and turns. It's fascinating, good stuff.

A few things. Industrial Design isn't going anywhere.... BUT, I do see the walls between the disciplines falling. I have no interest in "just" doing ID, and I thin most designers younger than me subscribe even less to the false barriers between the disciplines. At this point, they are less disciplines and more areas of specialty...

on that note, is there an organization that represents applied creativity?

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby bobcat » March 13th, 2010, 10:26 pm


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(Off topic perhaps, but FWIW, Bill Mogg often referred to ID being the 'noun' and IxD being the 'verb'- It's difficult to convey a complete product experience without both at play. Perhaps the IDSA should reposition itself a little to acknowledge the huge advances in device interaction, and the interplay with ID?)

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby yo » March 13th, 2010, 10:28 pm

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I like that noun/verb way of describing the interplay between the two.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby mrtwills » March 14th, 2010, 10:22 am

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yo wrote:
on that note, is there an organization that represents applied creativity?



I think AIGA does the best overall job of supporting the world of professional design. Here is their mission statement.
AIGA, the professional association for design, stimulates thinking about design, demonstrates the value of design and empowers the success of designers at each stage of their careers. AIGA’s mission is to advance designing as a professional craft, strategic tool and vital cultural force.

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby gmccain » March 14th, 2010, 8:12 pm


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Richard Kuchinsky,

Sorry, been away from this thread for a few days. I appreciate your helpful opinions and accept your assertion that you aren't angry. You have to excuse me for seeing your statement " but I think the attitude that IDSA is so great and infallible is part of the problem" as being something less than benign. As I said earlier, no one at IDSA thinks we are great and infallible. We appreciate everyone's interest in improving IDSA and would love to have you become involved in doing so. We do have Canadian members, just as we have European and Asian members.

George

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby bill-imistudios » March 15th, 2010, 12:51 am


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Adding to the following posts.

RE: “… yet I firmly believe that Interaction Design is, in-fact, Industrial Design…” (Chris Gielow)

My design education was in interaction design & I’ve been a practicing interaction designer since the early 90’s working in tech. Interaction design is not industrial design. Its role is architectural. It does embraces ID as it does ethnography, design research, graphic design…etc. Interaction design is parallel to film direction or architecture. I’d be happy to discuss this further off-thread. I draw these parallels based on the required rigor in education & training, the required breath of multi-disciplinary knowledge, and the way interaction design collaborates and lead other creative, science, engineering, and business peers in a team. Despite having no peers when I first joined, I found IDSA (mostly IDSA-NY) enriching & accommodating as a design association. And despite the lame 20th century name, IDSA brings under its umbrella many design and non-design disciplines. Other associations I belong to cover similar disciplines but done are creative centric. And I am happy to contribute to the evolution that IDSA (and its investments in education) is making so that interaction designers are the future key drivers of the organization. I hope you will be interested and enthusiastic in contributing.

RE: “…individuals seem like we can advocate far more effectively…“…Right now IDSA is a $300 subscription to a bad magazine. There has to be a lot more to it than that…” (Michael DiTullo)

There is alot more. In my experience, professional organizations like IDSA are far more effective than individuals because it functions like an open source platform for its members to contribute & change, so everyone evolves & thrives together.

Highly effective professional orgs do 3 things:

(1) Provide legitimacy through licensing/accreditation for members i.e. definition of qualifications & legal responsibilities, and assuring high standards of practice
(2) Define core values of the profession and promote them e.g. education, job training, outreach, & political advocacy
(3) Provide community & content for members to foster collaboration, & extend their professional friendships/networks
Community & content: (a) Supports members to mentor educators, students, and new professionals; (b)Support members in networking; (c) Develop programs/resources for members to improve skills and knowledge; (d) Support members through different career stages; (e) Be the historical archive of the profession

While item 1 is a non-starter as far as IDSA is concerned (as well as AIGA, HFES, SGICHI, IxDA…etc), IDSA has been super aggressive and show continous improvement in terms of effectiveness in 2 & 3. Since my student days, I’ve always believed IDSA is valuable because I’ve always pay for it myself. To me, IDSA is a $300 opportunity to add to the source code and create benefit to my peers and future peers.

I would be happy to discuss how I can help you contribute. Bill

Re: Discussion about the IDSA

Postby cg » March 15th, 2010, 6:09 pm

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bill-imistudios wrote:I am happy to contribute to the evolution that IDSA (and its investments in education) is making so that interaction designers are the future key drivers of the organization. I hope you will be interested and enthusiastic in contributing.


I am interested. I'd like to start by understanding the value proposition for IDSA and for Interaction Designers (who are already aligned-with and served-by other associations.)

PS: I would like to hear more about why you don't think IxD is a subset of ID. Ironic that we're on opposite sides of that debate! Let's take it to the Interaction Design forum.

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