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Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby design-engine » May 5th, 2017, 4:27 pm

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Creo has Sub'D in it's base package (comes stock) and SW is working on a Catia Kernel (not sure if they gave up yet) that will run a Sub'D utility. Catia and UG already have that as a module that costs 10k +
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Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby MK19 » May 6th, 2017, 4:34 pm


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design-engine wrote:Creo has Sub'D in it's base package (comes stock) and SW is working on a Catia Kernel (not sure if they gave up yet) that will run a Sub'D utility. Catia and UG already have that as a module that costs 10k +

SolidWorks SubD with Catia kernel launched a long time ago, called SolidWorks Industrial Designer.
Don't know how well uptake is.. hope it fails because I am still disappointed they refuse to put SubD in SolidWorks.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby SoOnAndSoForth » May 7th, 2017, 9:23 am


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cadjunkie wrote:I've pointed this out in other places but I keep telling people that pound for pound you can look at multiple platforms Fusion, Key Shot, Rhino, or Solidworks, nPower Surfacing, Keyshot but Modo by itself is just a better solution if organic modeling is what you're wanting to achieve.

Having "dynamics" as part of the mix of design bring something to the table that most ppl are thinking about. Imagine having to fill a gumball machine so that it looks like it is naturally filled with...yea gum balls. You'd have to "model" that is Fusion, SW, Rhino...etc. Or got a soft fabric WHY....please tell me WHY model it rather than let the physics engine create it. And this isn't limited to Modo only it's a different way of thinking with the software. Using Dynamics as part of the process is really an evolution in the industrial design side of software. Sure in SW, Pro/E, NX, and IV and the likes you get assemblies and you can test for moving parts but that's not the sames as physical dynamics as part of the process.


Hi Adam,
We use the usual Solidworks, Rhino, Keyshot combo here. I am very interested in trying Modo, but ultimately I need to send data to engineering, or to overseas factories for tooling.
Can you export the SubD parts as real data (for lack of a better word) or can you only export meshes? I haven't really been able to get a good answer, or maybe the answer has changed with newer releases?
It does look like an amazing piece of software.
If you can export solids that Solidworks/ProE can work with then that makes Modo something to really consider

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby cadjunkie » May 9th, 2017, 12:21 am


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MK19 wrote:
design-engine wrote:Creo has Sub'D in it's base package (comes stock) and SW is working on a Catia Kernel (not sure if they gave up yet) that will run a Sub'D utility. Catia and UG already have that as a module that costs 10k +

SolidWorks SubD with Catia kernel launched a long time ago, called SolidWorks Industrial Designer.
Don't know how well uptake is.. hope it fails because I am still disappointed they refuse to put SubD in SolidWorks.


Yes SW-ID failed the day it launched for a whole host of reasons. If you haven't taken a look at nPower Surfacing as an alternative then you might was to kick the tires on it.

- Pro = it is a Gold partner meaning that it is inside of SW like all other tools and has some really decent tools. It's at least on Par with what you get in F360 and if you get nPower Surfacing RE then you get by far one of the better tools for dealing with mesh data in SW than what SW-HQ provides.

- Con = Price point. They are charging WAY too much for this plug in. If they were ever looking for winder adoption of this tool then they are going to need to come down by more than 1/2 on the two versions of their software.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby cadjunkie » May 9th, 2017, 7:48 am


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Hi Adam,
We use the usual Solidworks, Rhino, Keyshot combo here. I am very interested in trying Modo, but ultimately I need to send data to engineering, or to overseas factories for tooling.
Can you export the SubD parts as real data (for lack of a better word) or can you only export meshes? I haven't really been able to get a good answer, or maybe the answer has changed with newer releases?
It does look like an amazing piece of software.
If you can export solids that Solidworks/ProE can work with then that makes Modo something to really consider[/quote]

I'm not Adam....but it is a complement.......:)

Yes you can go from Modo 100% to manufacturing... there's a plug-in called Power Translators which gives you the option to output as a STEP, SAT, Rhino, and IGES. Now just to be clear it's not just a simple file--->export not because it won't work but more so you have to understand that there are big differences between a SubD models and CAD model. Here are some screen shots that show the model in Modo and opened in Rhino and SW.... there are some flaws here and there but for the most part it's all good.

If you are really looking for a two way street between Modo and the CAD world then there is also the Power SubD-Nurbs plug-in as well. This helps convert CAD models into SubD models. Now this also isn't 100% but it's "ok" solution. Much of this comes down to what kind of workflow you intend to use. (i.e For adding details to a model or to bring a model in and render and/or animate.
Attachments
FL - Modo.jpg
FL - IGES.jpg
FL - RH.jpg

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby MK19 » May 9th, 2017, 1:11 pm


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cadjunkie wrote:
MK19 wrote:
Yes SW-ID failed the day it launched for a whole host of reasons. If you haven't taken a look at nPower Surfacing as an alternative then you might was to kick the tires on it.

Yeah, I know of Power Surfacing but I still think that they need to at least pay nPower and put this in as standard. Otherwise they are lagging behind the competition massively now.
Fusion 360, Inventor, Creo all have sub-D. Not sure about SolidEdge.

Now I work in education Power Surfacing is not an option for us. We are giving serious consideration to switching to Fusion 360, and I have already seen numerous UK universities making this switch. Dassault cannot continue with their arrogance or it is going to bite them in the ass in a few years time when everyone is teaching F360 in college and university.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby cadjunkie » May 14th, 2017, 9:51 pm


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@MK19: Honestly I would really say that Modo is in many ways a better bet to go in. The SubD modeling blows away the others hands down. Add in Mesh Fusion, dynamics, and renderings into the mix and you have a much more comprehensive solution.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby MK19 » May 15th, 2017, 3:36 am


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cadjunkie wrote:@MK19: Honestly I would really say that Modo is in many ways a better bet to go in. The SubD modeling blows away the others hands down. Add in Mesh Fusion, dynamics, and renderings into the mix and you have a much more comprehensive solution.

It's just the whole learning yet another piece of software, remembering another UI and shortcuts that really puts me off.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby daniel_acg » May 22nd, 2017, 10:42 am


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cadjunkie wrote:I've pointed this out in other places but I keep telling people that pound for pound you can look at multiple platforms Fusion, Key Shot, Rhino, or Solidworks, nPower Surfacing, Keyshot but Modo by itself is just a better solution if organic modeling is what you're wanting to achieve.

Having "dynamics" as part of the mix of design bring something to the table that most ppl are thinking about. Imagine having to fill a gumball machine so that it looks like it is naturally filled with...yea gum balls. You'd have to "model" that is Fusion, SW, Rhino...etc. Or got a soft fabric WHY....please tell me WHY model it rather than let the physics engine create it. And this isn't limited to Modo only it's a different way of thinking with the software. Using Dynamics as part of the process is really an evolution in the industrial design side of software. Sure in SW, Pro/E, NX, and IV and the likes you get assemblies and you can test for moving parts but that's not the sames as physical dynamics as part of the process.



Physical dynamics can be simulated in Rhino using Grasshopper and kangaroo that are free plugins for Rhino.

The thing here is that the industry will adopt the software that companies can afford and that satisfy it's specific needs, we can't say if some software it's better than te other in a single phrase without explaining the use case for each one, NURBS software's are more commonly use for production and manufacturing pieces where you need more control on dimensions, in that case modo would fart short on tools like surface analysis and unfolding surfaces, 2D parts Drawings and such. which are a essential part of the industrial design modeling.

Ross McCoy wrote:I was looking to pick up a license of T-Splines for Rhino and come to find out Autodesk stopped selling licenses late last year and will no longer be developing the plugin for Rhino. Instead they are integrating it into Autodesk Fusion 360 and it'll only be available there from now on.

I've never used Fusion 360, but would it be worth learning instead of picking Rhino back up?

I'm basically wanting to be able to model organic sculptural forms for some furniture designs that can be transferred over to a manufacturer-able surface. This will be mainly for personal use so I'm not wanting to drop a ton of money on software for now. Are there other software options I should consider instead? I'm most familiar with sub-d modeling since I come from a 3ds max background.

Here's my wish list of stuff to be able to do:
- Model furniture/home products (organic and hardsufaces)
- Render in program or export to Keyshot
- Produce a qaulity 3d model that can be either 3d printed, cnc'ed, etc...
- Be able to create patterns if I need to unfold something
- Not super expensive
- Be relevant to ID firms for a skill set


I also recently notice that Autodesk discontinued the t-spline plugin for rhino, it did the same thing with the amazing VSR Shape modeling Plugin, it bought the company, implemented the tools in Autodesk alias and got rid of the rhino plugin, t-splines it's now part of Fusion 360 and Alias Design,

Right now i think that your best option it's Rhino 3D for what you said you need to design, Rhino it's adopted by many ID firms, and you could complement it with Clayoo (an alternative sub-d modeling plugin for Rhino still with support and constant improvements), with Rhino you can also create drawings of your models for the production point of view. McNeel it's about to release Rhino 6 with great new features and fixed some geometric controls to better adapt the software to the industry standards, Cycles will be the default render engine of Rhino 6 version and also there's a new Vray plugin version for Rhino that it's amazing (vray it's one of the biggest standards in realistic rendering). plus you have Grasshopper for a very unique innovative way of 3D modeling you couldn't do in any other place.

I haven't personally tried Fusion 360, jet, but I think has lot of potencial, it seems very versatile like Rhino but with the experience of Autodesk to create profesional tools and Geometric precision, it seems Autodesk it's gathering the best of its software's into one tool, I'll give it a shot specifically looking for the surface modeling tools, but I'm just scared about this Autodek big monster that could change it's licencing prices at any time.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby daniel_acg » June 12th, 2017, 4:03 pm


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Do you guys have heard about Clayoo for Rhino? it appears to be a great Sub-D replacement of T-Splines, there's also a Sub-D feature on the Rhino WIP project that looks very promising, but wont be released with in the Rhino 6 version.

Re: T-Splines replacement?

Postby cadjunkie » August 15th, 2017, 3:52 pm


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Physical dynamics can be simulated in Rhino using Grasshopper and kangaroo that are free plugins for Rhino.

Yes this is a decent solution when it comes to dynamics but even Blender offers a wider deep range of solutions when it comes to this aspect.

The thing here is that the industry will adopt the software that companies can afford and that satisfy it's specific needs, we can't say if some software it's better than te other in a single phrase without explaining the use case for each one, NURBS software's are more commonly use for production and manufacturing pieces where you need more control on dimensions, in that case modo would fart short on tools like surface analysis and unfolding surfaces, 2D parts Drawings and such. which are a essential part of the industrial design modeling.

Any company that only stays in one software is again short sighted. Let's put it this way, no company would ONLY manufacture with just one output in mind (i.e just sheet metal or just injection molding). Software has to be looked at in much the same way. Not saying that every software needs to be purchased Rhino will never be Pro/E and Solidworks will never be zBrush. Modo is every bit as accurate as Solidworks but I agree that it is not a drafting tool. There are many times when a design/engineering director is behind the times and are not always keeping their eye out for the ever changing landscape that is 3D software.

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