Let's talk about 3D printers...

Example for us at Fossil. We were able to check our CAD data and double check it on the wrist before sending to factory. We were also able to print out the CAD the factory gave us back and double check the fit of that sample before they committed to expensive samples. If we caught a change in size or form from that 3D print we could update the technical drawing and save ourselves a revision sample round. All this was possible before the end of the day.

Eventually it was enough to convince them to get a nicer machine in house.

That’s awesome. And to the previous example, there’s your metric to justify the cost of the machine.

We have an Eden 500V (polyjet). I think its about 250K and we got it about 10 years ago. I think it was one of the first ones in Southern California back then.
Pros:

  1. Great resolution
  2. Easy and not messy to clean.
  3. No need to sand parts
  4. Multiple materials (rigid, flexible, polypro like, transparent, etc)
  5. Parts within ours.

Cons

  1. High cost
  2. Material cartridges as expensive (about 1K)
  3. Need to plan accordingly. Can’t buy every materialand have it sit there unused until it expires
  4. Maintenance/Upgrades are expensive
  5. The headaches when the machine goes down. Somebody has to spend hours on the phone or troubleshooting.

I don’t have any numbers but over 10 years it has been paid off and made us some money. We use it internally for projects as well as provide RP services to other companies and design firms.
It’s extremely beneficial when you need to compare multiple iterations of a project or you need to test size and fit in order to speed up the design process. We do outsource some RP jobs when we need specific materials (SLS, FDM, SLA, etc) or when we are at capacity. With some of the RP companies we have to wait at least 2-5 days depending on the complexity of the parts. It’s getting faster because there are so many RP companies popping up so I can just image it will get cheaper and faster very soon with all the competition.

In your case I would track how much you spend in a year for RP parts. Once you have that number then you can make an informed purchase. Makerbots are cheap and fast but then you have to do a lot of finishing on the part. Another client bought a makerbot-like machine and I think he ended up suing the manufacturer in order to get his money back. Turns out that once the part got to a larger size, the resolution and build quality were horrible and inacurate. Another client with a makerbot still has us do some RP parts because they do cell phone cases and they need the high resolution quality.

Develop3D as a good breakdown of options covered in their 3D Printing for the Professional March 2014 Special Edition

You can download it here, by searching the special guides.
http://www.develop3d.com/downloads/index.php

How does that justify the cost of bring a machine in-house?

It certainly justifies the use of printed parts, but again, something the size of a watch would cost me $20-$40 in a very high-res print off of a $250K machine that they have down the street. I’d have to print a lot of those parts to justify the capital and running costs.

Thinking back on it, I suppose it doesn’t. I was looking at it from verifying what the factory is using, and being able to check that prior to a run being completed. Cuts out potential errors and re-works. But, yes, you can do the same thing sending to a rapid proto shop, I suppose…

Each machine will have its own ROI based on cost, maintenance, operation, etc. The $250K machine was an example. It works for us because of the volume we do and the size of the parts. If you’re doing small $40 parts, and the volume is low, and the RP vendor is close by then it doesn’t make sense to buy a machine. If you print parts weekly or monthly then you may need to look into it, specially with so many out there now.

I guess what I would do is get samples from the machines that are in your range. Yes, surface quality and accuracy is the biggest issue.
Maybe create a sample file and have each printer send you a sample so you can compare apples to apples.
Most of them also have reps selling them, maybe they can come to your office to give you a demo.If they don’t use support material, how do you create complex shapes? That was one of the issues we noticed with one of the vendors that came to our office. Basically once the part gets tall or wide, the machine would have trouble. Sorry, can’t remember the name.

After that, it’s a matter of cost, maintenance, upgrades, volume, etc. Only you can figure out if it makes financial sense to you.

I wasn’t on the logistic side of things when they made that call. So not sure if the cost save vs cost spent side.

But in Dallas high res prints were no wear near $40 bucks. Closer to $200-300 for a watch head locally (off an objet). More if you needed it faster.
Sure you could gather all the models and get a bulk rate if you were willing to wait for everyone else to send there models in at the same time and fill a bed… (But now your organizing across multiple brands dealing with multiple team budgets.)

Even shapeways in highres was close to $70 plus shipping time. Maybe in areas that have more prototyping needs RP houses are more prevalent. But these guys catered to Texas Instruments. In Dallas I could probably get a local guy to print out a watch on his makerbot for $20 bucks if I was lucky.

Also now thats its in house its not just one team. But the entire company that can utilize it. Watches (the 10+ brands), leathergoods, softgoods, bags, small goods, etc. Also from a business side its pretty cool to show licensors and investors when they come in.

Main thing though was time it saved by potentially eliminating a bad first sample.

Also high end machines have way more color options. Multiple colors to show part breaks without having to assemble different parts, dials in color. Clear Crystals sampled without having to cut/mill glass. Flexible bands printed to show new silicone straps. Those process in a RP house all cost extra and it starts to add up when you have 10+ brands doing the same thing.

For a large company I think it made sense to get a nice machine. For a smaller place, it for sure would have been overkill. But entry level machines have there place too.

Wow.

That’s staggering.

These are the guys I use. Get a quote, at least that is free. http://www.buildparts.com/

I mostly print in the Accura Clearvue. Great resolution and seems to be much more humidity resistant than the Accura 25 Although super glue will work with the 25 and you need to use epoxy for the clear.

Just had a tour from these guys http://www.tinkerine.com/

Produces some good quality PLA parts for appearance models. Easy to use software. $1899 USD for their pro series Ditto

Found this the other day: 3D Printer Comparison Chart

Might be helpful?

QUick question for the lower priced FDM: can you do supports? Are they breakaway or water-soluble?

We bought a used Dimension, but I’ve had nothing but troubles (sadly). I’m really debating the cost of repair v. Makerbot or equivalent.

You can do breakable supports with lower priced FDM. Though, it depends on your slicer, so if they’ve got proprietary software that doesn’t do supports, you won’t be able to.

You need 2 nozzles for water-soluble supports, which some of the higher priced makerbots have.

I was just looking at the Replicator 2X, it might be the ticket for what we’re after. It’s pretty reasonably priced, too. Plus, it looks like it can do ABS instead of only PLA.

Anyone have experience with the dual extruding makerbots? Any other models? I tried to dig deep and find this stuff on websites, but it’s not clear to me. Maybe I’m just lacking the technical lexicon.

Was just doing a bit of research and found this: http://www.amazon.com/FlashForge-Structure-Optimized-Platform-Extruder/dp/B00I8NM6JO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1AZ3WH99SZW4H5MSFVZA

Lots of positive reviews from what appear to be actual users. Seems like a decent risk to take given the cost of the machine.

Ive heard great things about the FlashForge. Its essentially an updated Makerbot Clone from back in the open source days. Lots of online support/mods for that printer

That’s a great price! I’ll drill down into those reviews later. Thanks!

Not sure why the Makerbot site lists ABS for the Replicator 2X and PLA for the Replicator 2. You should be able to just pick the proper profile/temperature in the software and use either one. I’ve only ever used ABS with a heated platform and PLA without, but from what I hear there may be problems with ABS without a heated platform, so that may be the difference.

FlashForge looks like a solid option. Looks pretty much identical to our Replicator, which suits our purpose fine for the most part.

Looks like the 2X is the only dual extruding Makerbot right now: http://store.makerbot.com/compare