Solidworks, 3D Curves, and Surfacing

@mirk: I mean that it is difficult/complicated to control what happens between the endpoints. If you need a 3rd CP floating in space, you are just asking for trouble at the next model regeneration…

Sometimes they can be very useful though, like making a quick cross section for a swept surface - just throw in a 3D spline between to vertexes with curvature constraint… but still I usually prefer to create a plane there with a 2D curve instead.

But that’s just my experience and I’m certainly no guru.

Ah, the dreaded rebuild… Makes sense, thanks!

i wholeheartedly agree with engio. a 3d spline is always the last resort for me and to be avoided if possible, since especially the projected curves tool give usually much better controlled results.
I also prefer to use solidworks usually over rhino, as long as the surfaces are not getting too fancy and organic. especially building multiple variants with slight differences is just so easily done in SW since i can just change parameters instead of rebuilding whole surfaces in rhino.

so yeah, i think the surface tools in SW are actually very capable, i never ran into something that couldnt be done some way or another.

I have no doubt that there is a mindshift I need to go through in order to get SW to do what I want it to. My 20-0dd years of pushing CAD tells me that something is lacking in SW compared to other software I’m using. I don’t have empirical data to prove this point, it is more an obvious difference in thought process that is needed for SW.

SW, from my perspective, seems to be a derivitive of the 2D CAD world. SW that was built on the idea of allowing those that think in 2D to easily transition to the world of 3D…while Pro/e (my software of choice) and Rhino seem to have embraced the 3D as part of their core software tenets…

Just to make sure it is known…I find that SW (so far) handles 90%+ of what I need. This is simply one quirk that isn’t as intuitive for me as the other packages.

right…just because it ‘can’ be done doesn’t mean its fun doing it…the SolidWorks Bible has an image of a Shelby Cobra body on the cover, which would have to be a monstrous surfacing job in that program. But someone did it.

I had much better success in a shorter time with the surfacing extensions in Wildfire/Pro-E. Probably because ISDX was a full fledged surfacing program that was gradually integrated into ProE, vs trying to slowly evolve SolidWorks into making surfaces in a more intuitive way.

Word on the street is that the fellows who designed SolidWorks are working on a new CAD program that takes a fresh look at the discipline. Also there are rumors that Dassault will be scaling back support for SW in favor of other programs.

Two interesting words…especially the second. My read on the landscape that SW was pretty much out stripping the rest of the pack…why would you scale back?

What are they seeing that I’m not? Or, more to the point…what are the “fellows who designed Solidworks” seeing that is causing them to start fresh?

Feasible. Solidworks has not even touched surfacing since what, 2009? But a whole new program? Nah… They have a platform where thy can add stuff into SW, which they probably will when they have a killer surfacing package. I’m sure they are working on something killer and not half-assing it by improving legacy tools.

Also there are rumors that Dassault will be scaling back support for SW in favor of other programs.

Would bet against this. They release a new version each year with 5 service packs not counting betas. There’s is an update every 2 month if you want it, and they keep adding to it cost calculators, mould flow, enviromental impact analysis etc etc etc. AND they seem on top of the market. Very hard to believe they would be scaling back…

I think a whole new software package is feasible, actually. I tend to lean towards the thought that nothing has shaken up the industry in 10 years or so. If the originators of SW leave Dessault and start a new company out of frustration with working within the bigger corporation, it is very feasible that they’ve left to do something better. Happens all the time.

The founders of SolidWorks sold it to Dassault only three or four years after launching the program. Its been owned by Dassault since 1997. Here’s a link to an article on Belmont Technologies.

Here’s some of the chatter on killing SolidWorks, or at least substantially changing it from a Parasolid program to a CATIA program.

Bernard Charles, CEO of Dassault, regarding SolidWorks: “We’re Going To Drop Parasolid.” (poll at the end) (most recent)

They do still pay SolidEdge (Siemens) for the kernel, correct? That’s how it was 6-7 years ago. In theory, Siemens could just say “ok we’re done with you” and that would be it for Solidworks. It makes sense to shift to a Catia style program knowing that.

Solidworks surfacing has come a long ways in the SW existence. From what I can tell customers purchase Solidworks because they are told it’s cheaper/easier to use etc. Then they realize that it doesn’t do g2 or approach g3 continuity with the control Alias or Rhino offers. (Tesla realized that problem after a few years) SW has some really cool new tools for surfacing tho yet could probably use add on modules like Catia and Creo do. But then SW would be in the High end modeler category for that is one definition of High end modeler… the software is sold moduarly. ISDX in creo is an extra 5k… advanced assembly is another 5k

Tesla purchased SW after asking the young engineers what they wanted to use. Later (several years later) Tesla had to purchase Catia because of the limitations they realized only after learning for years. Now Tesla is using two packages like many have to do. Solidworks & Catia. Burton moved from Pro/ENGINEER years ago. They quickly realized they can’'t manage the complex surfacing they require so they have to use Alias with Solidworks. Two packages again.

It’s really easy to name companies that insist on switching to a mid range modeler against the surfacing teams better judgement then the surfacing team has to learn alias / rhino and force others on the team to deal with import geometry.

To bring it back around to the original comment. … wow I thought this stuff would be better…

The SW development team has done quite a bit to enhance those tools. The problem now is that the SW Catia grouping under one roof now has politics. For example, Trek wants a freestyle modeler like the Freestyle in Creo … or similar in Catia but Autodesk purchased T-SPLINES. SW development will or already has discontinued the SW plugin for T-SPLINES. The SW team due to consumerism and product positioning will not want to build a SUB’D modeler inside of SW for fear users will not want to upgrade to Catia because SW has it. You don’t want to compete with yourself so SW remains in the mid range marketplace while Catia remains in the high end marketplace.

http://proetools.com/solidworks-intro-to-surfacing-solidworks-training/ < the solidworks 3day surfacing class or http://proetools.com/solidworksweek-long-surfacing-intensive-solidworks-training/ week long intensive I designed in 2007 The class has changed each year significantly but check it out. Could use some feedback

I’m not disagreeing with you, but did you check out the link I posted earlier, Power Surfacing - Industrial Design for SolidWorks® ?
It’s 3rd party but it is nonetheless SUBD inside of SW. It appears like a separate feature in the feature tree. Then you shell it, add you ribs etc etc… oh need to tweak the surface again? No problem, just go and edit that feature.
It can be applied to separate surfaces and faces, has symmetry tools etc, it’s overall pretty cool for 750$.
I haven’t had a chance to use it on anything “real” yet and still running the tryout period, and I’m also very new to SUBD approach. But once new projects trickle in after summer vacation I plan to look closer at it…

thanks for the link. I probably should have read the entire thread before posting. Sub’d is cool !!!

looking at the SW '14 beta, it seems likelythat they’re not going to make any major shifts for at least another 1.5 years…?

Please go check out SW 2014 Beta (available for free to subscription customers.) It has a new style spline type that we are eager to get your input on.

thanks

Mark

a new type of spline, really? that’s no reason to buy an upgrade.
Whenever V6 is ready for primetime - dosn’t obsolete everything done in the old SW and hammers the crap out of Photoview - then we can talk.

SW 2013 finally has a conic in sketcher. Ive been asking for that for 14 years. It even has the ro value. For you Rhino Alias folks this is the y=x^2 conic function that has been missing in SW. Next they will allow equation driving functions similar to Evalgraph in Creo. This is one reason SW can’t be used to develop wings in Aviation. I suppose they don’t want to compete with their Caita products. I was so delighted to see the conic sketch tool tho! WOW. It’s about freeken time SW!

And its improper to compare Creo 2.0 to SW 2013
SW is sold as a stand alone package. Creo has hundreds of modules you can purchase. Both start out at around 5k but as you realize you need more you can purchase more with Creo. Not with SW. you stuck to upgrade to CATIA as I tried to explain in a previous post in this thread.

Your probably used to the ISDX module of Creo. Those tools are very powerful and costs aprox 5k more than the base. The base package of Creo has similar tools but the ISDX is so fast and easy to lay down geometry. I teach that class :wink: and love turning designers onto it.

Solidworks pays Siemens or what was Unigraphics for the NX Kernel. It would be a paramount change to drop that link to the kernel of NX . We teach NX at design engine too. Simular stuff but the NX user interface is from the UNIX days. SW did a good job developing the User interface with NX assistance. The NX programmers could learn a thing or two from the SW user interface developers. For example there is no visual way to drop the red arrow from the model tree into insert mode. you have to do it using a menu. Silly and archaic yes. Powerful still yes. fun to use… maybe not.

go with Creo

The reason I was drawn to Solidworks in school (2006-2010) was the rapidly improving and vastly superior interface. Every year it got 100% better. Honestly, I could jump ship to a brand new program from DSS as long as it had a great interface and improved the existing features rather than trading them off.

the 3d curve esp the curve on surface can be finicky. I have made lists on other forums for suggesting enhancements to the that 3d curve tool. Big problem is the development teams may be limited to what enactments they can preform w/o fear of competing with their high end tools such as Catia.

http://www.dimontegroup.com/tutorials.html

this guy is a SW surfacing beast