Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Travisimo » January 11th, 2013, 4:20 am

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Generatewhatsnext wrote:!@#%* They all keep falling short in one way or another! #$%^&


So freaking true.

It's either a too-small screen with a nice ID, or a larger screen/0lder convertible with a less attractive look (that matters to me)

I'd like to hear a sketcher review of the N-Trig too. I've heard is that you have to have a battery in the stylus...

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Travisimo » January 11th, 2013, 4:39 am

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ATIV 11.6 Win 8 Slate vs. last year's 13in Fujitsu Lifebook T902

Makes the lifebook seem like the solid choice, but it's just not as s e x y ...


Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Travisimo » January 11th, 2013, 6:37 am

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And of course the MS Surface Tablet. Review here

3rd Gen Intel Core i5 Processor with Intel HD Graphics 4000
4GB RAM—Dual Channel Memory
10.6-inch ClearType Full HD Display
1920 x 1080 resolution

Cost? Date?

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Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Travisimo » January 11th, 2013, 9:05 am

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Wow - 27 in Tablet! No Stylus (could have one?).. 27" MULTI-USER, MULTIMODE, MULTITOUCH TABLE PC.

IBM IDEA CENTER

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Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Cyberdemon » January 11th, 2013, 11:43 am

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I'd assume if it's a standard capacitive screen you could use any off the shelf capacitive stylus, but it won't have a Wacom digitizer.

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Generatewhatsnext » January 11th, 2013, 12:32 pm

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Regarding the big Lenovo (and a similar 27" SONY) as soon as I saw the commercial of the little girl using a kids-paintbrush on the screen I was on SONY.com and chatting with tech support, only to be told it would support a capacitive stylus (like trenching-in tiny sprinkler pipes with a bulldozer).

The Fujitsu is like our Tecras, except I guess the newest Fujitsu's have a touchscreen so you could at least enjoy Windows 8 touch experience on a bulky convertible - but if I'm not mistaken, none of the convertibles are available anymore with Nvidia graphics, so we've kept the Tecras up and running for the time being instead.

There is a Euro unit I've posted about before, the Paceblade PM240;
http://tablet-news.com/2012/03/09/cebit-2012-paceblade-pm240-windows-8-tablet-uses-core-i7-processor-video/
http://www.paceblade.com/index.php?products_details=2
So far I haven't found any US electronics distributors carrying this but I'll be in Barcelona in March and plan to visit their distributor (I might throw a sketchbook pro installer on a jump drive and see if they'll let me test it out).
PROS; Core i7, lots of ram, big HD, 2 batteries, 12.1", Wacom stylus, docking port, can order one spec'd as you like.
CONS; hefty, not sure of the graphics engine, ship to the EU in case of service?
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Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby holtag » January 13th, 2013, 11:21 pm

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That Panasonic 20" is getting my hopes up (even though it is an N-trig stylus).
http://dvice.com/archives/2013/01/panasonic-shows-2.php

@Travissimo, my modbook has been gathering dust. I was using it quite a bit at the beginning but the bezel around the screen and the thickness of the tablet made sketching pretty frustrating. The size of the screen feels pretty cramped too.

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby HRhV » January 15th, 2013, 10:42 am

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A bit late to the party, but may have some useful info!

Have been looking into this for the past few weeks, as my Lenovo X60t is on its last legs now, which isn't great, especially if you just want to have a mess around sketching in an evening. My partner has an iPad, but I have never really gotten to grips using a stylus with it due to the lack of palm rejection. What I am really after is a windows 8 tablet...

Travisimo wrote:ATIV 11.6 Win 8 Slate vs. last year's 13in Fujitsu Lifebook T902

Makes the lifebook seem like the solid choice, but it's just not as s e x y ...


After a lot of digging I found that the Samsung S Pen is indeed a wacom stylus, just rebranded. This means that pretty much any of the new Samsung tablets, as long as they come with an S Pen, should be fairly good with sketching. The problem then becomes software, as the android version of SBP is fairly paired down in my experience.

The Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro comes across as a bit slugish in the video that @Travisimo posted, but this is only the standard version using an atom processor - in my opinion the atom is a bit slow to handle SBP with lots of layers. They do however have a pro version, which has increased ram etc. This is currently going for about £1k GBP. That may change things.
It sounds like a real solid contender in my view, but the reviews of the accompanying keyboard are rubbish - so it would have to be a sketch only device rather than a laptop that you can sketch on.

The Fujitsu T902 and its counterpart that splits apart both have wacom enabled stylus', however despite good reviews in the US, there are no dates on when it will appear in the UK, and like mentioned before, it isn't as nice looking or as easy to pick up and sling around.

My main question at the moment is regarding the MS Surface Pro - some of the digital arts forums have posted a response from Wacom saying that they do make the screen on the Pro version - would that make it a contender? Has anyone had any hands on experience?

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby KenoLeon » January 15th, 2013, 8:18 pm

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I just got a Thinkpad tablet 2 !

It's updating/charging as we speak and I still need to install sketchbook/rhino and put it trough it's paces, so I'll post my findings as soon as I get more hands on time... my initial impressions are inconclusive so far. :|

K.

Update : I decided to try and return it, it has a number of critical flaws and might be defective, I'll write a more detailed account as soon as I have a little free time, but for now if you are on the fence about getting it I would recommend you pass for now : (

Here's a couple of super simple sketches I managed to produce while testing, they took me about half as much time extra thanks to the stylus/responsiveness issues ( see next post)

TT2sheepjpg.jpg
Quick sheep sketch
TT2sheepjpg.jpg (24.46 KiB) Viewed 4363 times

001TT2.jpg
Something more ID related, nothing fancy,
001TT2.jpg (15.91 KiB) Viewed 4363 times
Last edited by KenoLeon on January 17th, 2013, 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby KenoLeon » January 16th, 2013, 9:14 pm

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Thinkpad Tablet 2 for ID work, some of my findings, and by all means not a professional review....

- The stylus is not comfortable for prolonged use, it is small and while it is cool that you can dock it on the tablet itself, I would rather have a full size one.
- The digitizer is not very accurate, there is a gap in between where you rest the tip of the stylus and where the cursor appears( about 4 mm).There is also no clear way to re calibrate it, and while it is not marked as a wacom stylus, the driver says wacom.
- Resting the palm doesn't seem to interfere with sketching, (most of the time) but I have a suspicion this might be the cause of the unresponsive finger touch....
- I don't know If I got a defective unit or it is not quite there yet, but finger touch input is hit or miss, It registers some key presses but not all the time.
- There is also a bug where it randomly registers input while you just hold it without touching the screen, I checked against a surface RT and the surface seems to register accurately.
-Pinch and zoom doesn't seem to work, but this might be a software issue.
- I installed Sketchbook Pro and an old version of Rhino (v2) and they seem to work fine, although using rhino just with the stylus is no fun since there is no way to reprogram the middle button on the stylus, there's also the accuracy issues mentioned above.
- There is a very obnoxious ambient light sensor that rests where you normally rest your palm, so you end up dimming the screen on and off as you sketch, not ideal.
- The resolution is crazy small and you can't change it, I consider myself to have a pretty decent eyesight, but it's uncomfortable to work with , this might be indigenous to the form factor but is especially aggravating on windows 8 on the desktop, which coupled with the lack of accuracy on pen and touch input and the lack of pinch& zoom makes things like closing/re sizing/selecting etc 1 minute exercises in frustration....No thanks.

I had reasonable hopes that this tablet would complement if not replace traditional sketching methods, and had visions of me doing some extra work from the comfort of the couch/bed.To be fair I understand that this unit is mostly aimed at corporate types, but even then it fails miserably at basic stuff like navigating a web page or working on some inventory control program, as an entertainment/ipad kindle competitor it's also not very good, mostly thanks to the botched UI on windows 8 ,control issues and the high price in comparison to Kindle and android devices. ($740)

Some other findings :

- The bevel on the rubber coated backside is a work of art.
- A few people stopped while I was at a coffee shop and looked in awe as I sketched on it ( Although they called it an Ipad), but not as many as when I have markers and paper...
- Battery life (billed at 8 hrs) in real life was more like 4.

In conclusion, if only the sketching experience was good ( not even great) I would keep it, and maybe recommend it, but for now I am returning it since it feels rushed and not well thought out.

K.

Here's some pics/quick sketches:

stylusTT2.jpg
Stylus size comparison with a bamboo wacom
stylusTT2.jpg (45.57 KiB) Viewed 4364 times

TT2Sketchbook.jpg
Using Sketchbook Pro
TT2Sketchbook.jpg (45.18 KiB) Viewed 4364 times

TT2Bevel.jpg
But look at that bevel
TT2Bevel.jpg (28.44 KiB) Viewed 4364 times

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Travisimo » January 17th, 2013, 2:16 am

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KenoLeon, thanks for sharing your review - Thinkpad II did seem like it had potential.

about the screen resolution and things being too small - I have the same X60 12in that HRhv has and the resolution is so low that the tool menus cover a third of the screen. 10in seems small anyway

It really seems that going for anything less than an i5 or i7 processor isn't going to be responsive, and most of the tablets seem to be atom processor

HRhv - Surface Pro does have a wacom... wish they'd release it already, I really want a new machine

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Generatewhatsnext » January 21st, 2013, 1:24 pm

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I think we've settled on a designer desktop scenario (at least until we try the stylus on the Asus Taichi31).

Now that all the hoopla is out there from CES, it's clear that none of the Win8 tablets seem to hit all the marks, so we're going to try a two PC approach;

For maximum productivity, we're going with a desktop Asus AIO 2300 for each designer; http://sg.asus.com/Allinone_PCs/23_inch/ET2300INTI/#specifications 23" is big enough for good CAD work, it's got the i7 processor, fast RAM, big SSD, all touch capable and Widi for flatscreen/presentation connectivity and most importantly has an Nvidia GeForce GPU.

For maximum portability, we're also going with an Asus Taichi 31 laptop/tablet hybrid for each designer; http://taichi.asus.com/#SpecDetailList It can be spec'd with an i7 and pretty good RAM and SSD, but I'm iffy on the stylus responsiveness with the crappy Intel GPU but preliminary reports are positive and it's the only 13.3" model out there, so our 14.1" Toshiba Tecras won't be missed too much. I can see the two screens being useful.

The 2300 is available now but we're still waiting to get a crack at a Taichi31 for a sketch test. If anyone out there sees a Taichi31 and gets to play with it, please do fill us in!
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Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby Generatewhatsnext » January 21st, 2013, 5:51 pm

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Here's a video regarding the Taichi31 (it's been released in AUZ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFtfUed2Fn4

He's incorrect that it is Wacom, maybe its such a good NTrig he can't tell the difference?? ;)
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Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby KenoLeon » February 2nd, 2013, 9:39 pm

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Having had a less than stellar experience with the Thinkpad tablet 2,( see my previous post) I returned it and got myself a Thinkpad x230 convertible tablet,
I am still getting used to it,but here's my take so far:

- It works !, the digitizer is great to sketch with and while it's not a cintiq, the gap in between stylus/screen cursor and pressure sensitive are pretty good.
- Resolution is fine (1366 x768) witha 12.5 display and I can have most toolbars open in sketchbook and a drawing area.
- The pen while not full size is pretty comfortable and tucks neatly on the side.
- It might not be the most beautiful laptop/tablet, but for those that like the plain boxy look of thinkpads it's fine.
- Weight wise (3 lbs) it's ok for the couch, it is not really comfortable for bed since the weight digs into your fleshy parts, but I've been doing 1hr drawing/cad sessions without issues, it's more at home on the road/coffee shop and even bar...
- It seems sluggish doing hardware related stuff ( like rotating the screen & booting up), but seems nimble doing CAD/ Sketching ( has a core i5/4GB RAM windows 7)
- It is loaded with crapware and needs updating like crazy, I am on day 7 and it is still asks me to update & sign up for stuff.
- Price wise, I got it from the outlet, it is a scratch and dent which translates to some minor scratches on the lid and a pair of missing rubber stands; for around $800 , around the same price as the newer W8 tablets.
- Battery life is about 4-7hrs.

- So while the first of the Windows 8 10' tablets failed to work for me, the last of the Windows 7 12' convertible laptop does a fairly good job for ID/Sketching.

K.

IMG_20130131_130750.jpg
Lenovos x230T in it's tablet mode.

sheepx230.jpg
The obligatory Sheep on Sketchbook Pro @ real resolution size
sheepx230.jpg (74.87 KiB) Viewed 4068 times
Attachments
x230qsketch2.jpg
Another quick sketch, was practicing heads :)
x230qsketch2.jpg (38 KiB) Viewed 4068 times

Re: 2012 Win8 Sketching Tablets

Postby HRhV » February 6th, 2013, 5:27 am

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Great review KenoLeon!
I have a previous version of that (the X60T) which works really well for day to day sketches.

Now for a few updates:
I went to the BETT show last week, which was exceptionally useful for seeking out and trying sketching gear. Here is what I found out:

Lenovo
In addition to the 230 (which KenoLeon just reviewed) and the Thinkpad 2, Lenovo are bringing out another tablet with a wacom penabled stylus. The Helix tablet runs full windows 8 pro with a core i7 processor (I think). I managed to get my hands on it and have a go. First thoughts: Although the tablet looks great, the keyboard joining mechanism is MASSIVELY over engineered. There are prongs all over the place, catches and flaps that fold onto the back. It felt light enough in my hands, but I would be immediately worried that these would snap or break in regular use.
The keypad section though does have some use - unlike a lot of other keypad add ons, it includes an extra battery (the bloke on the stand said it brought it up to 18 hours battery life - not sure how accurate that it) and additional ports.

Unlike most of the computers on the stands, the Helix had sketchbook installed on the demo unit. This is where I found the problem. Although the stylus is small, it is still quite comfortable to use, but the accuracy was way off. Similar to the review of the thinkpad 2, the digitiser was about 2-3mm out when sketching, and despite going to the very depths of the settings of the device, I couldn't change or recalibrate it. This for me is a deal breaker - I am looking for the tablet for purely sketching, and this coupled with the clunky mechanism and hinge rule it out.

Microsoft
Typically, the MS stand didn't have any Surface Pros to show, but they did have some info on it. The stylus definitely is wacom, and is pressure sensitive. If the price point is low enough, this could be really good. The reviews http://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/02/microsoft-surface-pro/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Netvibes of the pro came out today, and the stylus actually looks pretty neat - much bigger than the likes of the lenovo or the samsung.

Samsung
We have talked before about the ATIV Smart PC - I managed to have a real play around with the Pro version. This for me looks like the best choice out there. There is a noticeable weight difference between it and the standard Smart PC, but it still feels light enough to hold and sketch on comfortably. The stylus (S Pen) is again made by wacom (and seems to be getting a lot of support, hence samsung buying big shares in wacom last week), and is contained really nicely in the back of the tablet. If the stylus does seem to be a bug bare in terms of size, I took out my lenovo stylus from my x60t (which is quite a bulky pen) and it worked perfectly on it - a good solution if you want a different feel when you sketch.
The machine was fast. The pro version has full windows and a core i5 processor, which makes it easily capable of running SBP and even CAD with some efficiency. I may see if I can trial one for a few weeks, or even just buy one outright. At £900 it is also one of the cheapest options out there.

Help all that helps!

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