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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby Scott Bennett » March 1st, 2011, 3:09 pm

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It's better expressed in terms of COG rather than wholesale price- we don't know your margins, and it's irrelevant in this context anyway.

The cost depends a lot on whether this is retail packaging (4 color, glossy, etc.), or just shipping packaging. Stating it as a percentage depends so much on what's going inside, and how many you're making. I can tell you our packaging cost is about 10% of our total product cost (this is for low volume, mid-high priced furniture). That's for a high quality carton, with 100% paper based cushioning materials. But no custom printing, and it's not something you would put on a retail shelf.

If you just need a wild ass guess, 10% is probably a good starting point.

Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby zippyflounder » March 1st, 2011, 4:08 pm


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download/file.php?mode=view&id=11947
download/file.php?mode=view&id=11951

download/file.php?mode=view&id=11953

the first go's into something like the second, then the first go's into a machine and makes the third. The box will have a lot of information on the back panel.
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby rkuchinsky » March 1st, 2011, 4:19 pm

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What on the can thing? What kind of lid does it have? What kind of box you got? Any pamphlet insert in it?

It you were doing something premium, I'd expect a super nice label on the can, a really cool lid, maybe all vac sealed for security, a mini brochure in the box, a high quality box with a unique way of opening it, full 4 color printing, spot UV, emboss, foils, some sort of seal, etc. etc.

Graphics are key. There's a lot of really cool graphics and branding in the coffee industry...

That help?

R
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby zippyflounder » March 1st, 2011, 4:28 pm


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rkuchinsky wrote:What on the can thing? What kind of lid does it have? What kind of box you got? Any pamphlet insert in it?

It you were doing something premium, I'd expect a super nice label on the can, a really cool lid, maybe all vac sealed for security, a mini brochure in the box, a high quality box with a unique way of opening it, full 4 color printing, spot UV, emboss, foils, some sort of seal, etc. etc.

Graphics are key. There's a lot of really cool graphics and branding in the coffee industry...

That help?

R

No printing on the can itself (can gets real hot so any printing turns to smoke and gasses) and the lid is a easy open one like on a can of peaches. The back of the box has all the info on the where, how, and what to do.

Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby rkuchinsky » March 1st, 2011, 4:34 pm

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zippyflounder wrote:
rkuchinsky wrote:What on the can thing? What kind of lid does it have? What kind of box you got? Any pamphlet insert in it?

It you were doing something premium, I'd expect a super nice label on the can, a really cool lid, maybe all vac sealed for security, a mini brochure in the box, a high quality box with a unique way of opening it, full 4 color printing, spot UV, emboss, foils, some sort of seal, etc. etc.

Graphics are key. There's a lot of really cool graphics and branding in the coffee industry...

That help?

R

No printing on the can itself (can gets real hot so any printing turns to smoke and gasses) and the lid is a easy open one like on a can of peaches. The back of the box has all the info on the where, how, and what to do.


Sure there must be a way to print on the can, and have a nicer lid. Otherwise, it's like opening a nice tube of Scotch and getting a refilled PET plastic water bottle with no label.. doesn't say premium and even moreso I think is a huge let down from the outside package.


Maybe you'd need to rethink the packaging to work with the barebones can. Brown cardboard with shredded paper stuffing like an artifact and sell it as "eco".

Or at least maybe make the can chrome!

R
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby zippyflounder » March 1st, 2011, 4:47 pm


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rkuchinsky wrote:
zippyflounder wrote:
rkuchinsky wrote:What on the can thing? What kind of lid does it have? What kind of box you got? Any pamphlet insert in it?

It you were doing something premium, I'd expect a super nice label on the can, a really cool lid, maybe all vac sealed for security, a mini brochure in the box, a high quality box with a unique way of opening it, full 4 color printing, spot UV, emboss, foils, some sort of seal, etc. etc.

Graphics are key. There's a lot of really cool graphics and branding in the coffee industry...

That help?

R

No printing on the can itself (can gets real hot so any printing turns to smoke and gasses) and the lid is a easy open one like on a can of peaches. The back of the box has all the info on the where, how, and what to do.


Sure there must be a way to print on the can, and have a nicer lid. Otherwise, it's like opening a nice tube of Scotch and getting a refilled PET plastic water bottle with no label.. doesn't say premium and even moreso I think is a huge let down from the outside package.


Maybe you'd need to rethink the packaging to work with the barebones can. Brown cardboard with shredded paper stuffing like an artifact and sell it as "eco".

Or at least maybe make the can chrome!

R

sorry in this case (as so often it does) engineering over rules design. Easy open can means no can opener (big plus) chrome busts the budget big time and makes the can less recyclable. There is not a ink on the planet and damn few paints that can handle 500 degrees F.

Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby rkuchinsky » March 1st, 2011, 4:52 pm

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Well you said premium. I'm just saying that doesn't communicate premium...

Engineering may rule over design, but consumer perception rules over engineering.

R
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby NURB » March 1st, 2011, 4:56 pm

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What if you emboss a logo or other info?
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby NURB » March 1st, 2011, 4:58 pm

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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby PackageID » March 1st, 2011, 5:02 pm

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No printing on the can itself (can gets real hot so any printing turns to smoke and gasses) and the lid is a easy open one like on a can of peaches. The back of the box has all the info on the where, how, and what to do.

sorry in this case (as so often it does) engineering over rules design.


Actually this is not true. Plenty of cans are printed. Depending on how the can is formed it can either be printed before it is formed as a sheet with traditional print methods or after through silk screening or pad printing.

I agree with R. If this is a premium coffee and is going to be shipped from an on-line source than I would expect at least a printed can with high end graphics, or at the very least a can with nice label. Also to put a peal top on it like a can of peaches is a bit off as you will not be able to reseal it. Think about how the user is going to use this and store it. also think about the fact that they have gone out of their way to order this on-line. This is not some $5 bag of coffee they just sample of the shelf. This is a planned purchase that has to deliver or else there will be no repurchase.

One other question. Is that box the box that it will ship in? Meaning is that the outer shipping container? If so that box will be beaten to hell by the time it gets to the consumer which makes that can even more important.
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby zippyflounder » March 1st, 2011, 5:30 pm


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rkuchinsky wrote:Well you said premium. I'm just saying that doesn't communicate premium...

Engineering may rule over design, but consumer perception rules over engineering.

R
umm not if it don't work...a duck looks like a duck because it needs to fly and float too.

Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby zippyflounder » March 1st, 2011, 5:32 pm


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PackageID wrote:
No printing on the can itself (can gets real hot so any printing turns to smoke and gasses) and the lid is a easy open one like on a can of peaches. The back of the box has all the info on the where, how, and what to do.

sorry in this case (as so often it does) engineering over rules design.


Actually this is not true. Plenty of cans are printed. Depending on how the can is formed it can either be printed before it is formed as a sheet with traditional print methods or after through silk screening or pad printing.

I agree with R. If this is a premium coffee and is going to be shipped from an on-line source than I would expect at least a printed can with high end graphics, or at the very least a can with nice label. Also to put a peal top on it like a can of peaches is a bit off as you will not be able to reseal it. Think about how the user is going to use this and store it. also think about the fact that they have gone out of their way to order this on-line. This is not some $5 bag of coffee they just sample of the shelf. This is a planned purchase that has to deliver or else there will be no repurchase.

One other question. Is that box the box that it will ship in? Meaning is that the outer shipping container? If so that box will be beaten to hell by the time it gets to the consumer which makes that can even more important.
The can is heated to FIVE HUNDRED DEGREES, so any printing on it turns to smoke, gases and SMELL. The can is not for resealing, it generates just enough coffee for 1 pot. The reorders come because its the most perfect coffee money can buy, at any price.

Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby rkuchinsky » March 1st, 2011, 5:40 pm

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I'm not going to argue if you think you know best. You asked about premium looking packaging, I replied.

If the can looks like an old oil can, it can make the best coffee in the world, but chances are nobody will buy it or buy it twice.

Starbucks may not be the best coffee in the world (far from it), but why do you think people go there? They have an impression of premium, it's a lifestyle and addresses more than the need for coffee.

Your fooling yourself if you think it doesn't matter and surely don't understand premium and consumer behavior esp. in the competitive coffee market.

lat bit of advice for free (after this it will cost ya)-

Maybe back to square one then to see how you can make a different machine that uses a nicer can. Why not have the coffee arrive in a nice, different container that they can empty into a plain can?

Best of luck,

R
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% of cost for packaging

Postby PackageID » March 1st, 2011, 5:44 pm

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zippyflounder wrote:
PackageID wrote:
No printing on the can itself (can gets real hot so any printing turns to smoke and gasses) and the lid is a easy open one like on a can of peaches. The back of the box has all the info on the where, how, and what to do.

sorry in this case (as so often it does) engineering over rules design.


Actually this is not true. Plenty of cans are printed. Depending on how the can is formed it can either be printed before it is formed as a sheet with traditional print methods or after through silk screening or pad printing.

I agree with R. If this is a premium coffee and is going to be shipped from an on-line source than I would expect at least a printed can with high end graphics, or at the very least a can with nice label. Also to put a peal top on it like a can of peaches is a bit off as you will not be able to reseal it. Think about how the user is going to use this and store it. also think about the fact that they have gone out of their way to order this on-line. This is not some $5 bag of coffee they just sample of the shelf. This is a planned purchase that has to deliver or else there will be no repurchase.

One other question. Is that box the box that it will ship in? Meaning is that the outer shipping container? If so that box will be beaten to hell by the time it gets to the consumer which makes that can even more important.
The can is heated to FIVE HUNDRED DEGREES, so any printing on it turns to smoke, gases and SMELL. The can is not for resealing, it generates just enough coffee for 1 pot. The reorders come because its the most perfect coffee money can buy, at any price.

Now I am confused on what manufacturing processes you are using to make these cans. Looks like a stock can to me which a either punched or in the case of a holiday tin rotary formed. Also in the case of it being a single serve I would say the outer box is very important but does not take away from the fact that the can still needs to be branded and special. How many of these come in a box? Seems like a lot of packaging for a single portion of coffee.
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Re: % of cost for packaging

Postby zippyflounder » March 1st, 2011, 5:49 pm


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Actually this is not true. Plenty of cans are printed. Depending on how the can is formed it can either be printed before it is formed as a sheet with traditional print methods or after through silk screening or pad printing.

I agree with R. If this is a premium coffee and is going to be shipped from an on-line source than I would expect at least a printed can with high end graphics, or at the very least a can with nice label. Also to put a peal top on it like a can of peaches is a bit off as you will not be able to reseal it. Think about how the user is going to use this and store it. also think about the fact that they have gone out of their way to order this on-line. This is not some $5 bag of coffee they just sample of the shelf. This is a planned purchase that has to deliver or else there will be no repurchase.

One other question. Is that box the box that it will ship in? Meaning is that the outer shipping container? If so that box will be beaten to hell by the time it gets to the consumer which makes that can even more important.
The can is heated to FIVE HUNDRED DEGREES, so any printing on it turns to smoke, gases and SMELL. The can is not for resealing, it generates just enough coffee for 1 pot. The reorders come because its the most perfect coffee money can buy, at any price.[/quote]
Now I am confused on what manufacturing processes you are using to make these cans. Looks like a stock can to me which a either punched or in the case of a holiday tin rotary formed. Also in the case of it being a single serve I would say the outer box is very important but does not take away from the fact that the can still needs to be branded and special. How many of these come in a box? Seems like a lot of packaging for a single portion of coffee.[/quote]

The can roasts coffee that makes 10 cups of brewed coffee and yes its a stock can as the tooling for a custom can runs over 7 figures (i know I researched the hell out of it) as to the "look" the R mentioned, the K cup looks like shit, costs a lot and they sold 3 billion of them last year.

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